PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49 • Hacker News Board

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#111

Post by mrweasel » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

tofukid wrote: post #102

I still use PayPal because it has the best global coverage and least friction for consumers. Their new checkout form also seamlessly accepts credit/debit cards and does subscriptions. Many of my customers are in countries that aren’t supported by Stripe, so it’s not much of a choice from a business perspective.

Do you just use PayPal to accept credit/debits cards? Because there are alternatives to Stripe. They aren't as well made, but they do exist.

For me, if I go to a site, that only accepts PayPal, then I'm won't be buying anything. I honestly don't trust PayPal, at all. If it's PayPal only, I assume it's fraud.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#112

Post by jokethrowaway » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #100

danieldisu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key features of these apps is that you only need the phone in order to make transfers, that allows you to avoid asking for the account number to anyone.

On the other hand, account numbers are not a significant 'secret' or something like that. They are just as 'safe' to share as phone numbers.

Up to a point. They may be used to create direct debit subscriptions (you just need account details and name), which can be annoying.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#113

Post by mrweasel » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

bserge wrote: post #5

Still the easiest way to start selling online, at least in Europe... They've got the low volume starter business niche by the balls.

Maybe it has improved in the last six years, but setting up PayPal for an eCommerce site was an absolute nightmare. It could only be done by the CEO of the company, legally, and you needed a PayPal representative on the phone, guiding you through setting up the account correctly.

Just sign up for a regular payment processor, if you're in Scandinavia. The larger ones will also support iDEAL, SoFORT and other local options and help you get started with those.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#114

Post by jokethrowaway » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #98

kolinko wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in Poland it’s similar. Since ~2001 we’ve had wire transfers that take up to a few hours to arrive (or instant) and cost 0-0.25$ to send, regardless of the amount. It made PayPal or Venmo kind of pointless over here.

People use PayPal, Venmo, Revolut, etc mostly for convenience. You just need a phone number or email to send a payment, compared to a bank/wire transfer where you first need to obtain the account number you’re sending to. All of these services (including PayPal) charge no fees for personal payments. Just to merchants for commercial transactions, which often come with buyer protection, free credit/payment plans for th…

PayPal is used because of customer protection.

Revolut is used because they hide their low forex exchange fees (despite their claims of nearly no fees, you'll find cheaper transfers elsewhere).

Venmo may be convenient in the States. I've never seen anyone in Europe using it. Banks have some system to send money to a phone number, though, which serves the same purpose.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#115

Post by another-dave » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

pjerem wrote: post #33

londons_explore wrote: post #6

It amazes me that despite not really modifying the core PayPal service for 10+ years, they are still a market leader. Parts of their business don't have much network effect, and competitors could totally rebuild the tech and eat away at the market share... Yet somehow that hasn't happened.

PayPal do have a network effect amongst customers who choses PayPal because they marketed for decades that purchases through PayPal are protected in case of issues.

That probably just makes them a nicely cemented incumbent rather than a network effect.

Contrasting with social — if I want to message all my friends about a housewarming party, Mastedon might be my preferred platform & I might hate FB/WhatsApp, but if none of my friends actually _use_ Mastedon I'm out of luck. I have to talk with my friends somewhere that they can receive the message.

Whereas if a merchant offers me payment options of MasterCard, Amex or PayPal online, there's no additional pull towards PayPal because all my friends use it.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#116

Post by MaKey » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #89

konschubert wrote: post #86

Paypal is a pretty scammy service also on the consumer side. When paying in foreign currency, they try to trick users into using their "conversion" service, which helpfully charges a bit more money to your credit card than you would have paid without their "assistance".

A very common trap when using your credit card abroad too. If you don't insist on being charged in the local currency the payment processor may "convert" it for you with a worse rate and pocket the difference.

I wish there was some kind of regulation against this.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#117

Post by jiggunjer » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

Bombthecat wrote: post #45

nine_k wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the increased cost of compliance. And also the fact that they are one of the few established and widely accepted payment / transfer systems, so their customers aren't going to flee in droves.

I'm not sure if you can blame compliance for that. PayPal is back since a very very long time already... And its getting bigger and bigger by the day, so it should scale. Not increase cost.. I'm pretty sure they do it: A) for the stock B) because they are a monopol (almost)

Monopoly in what? I've never used paypall in any physical or online payment.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#118

Post by another-dave » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

robryan wrote: post #51

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal doesn’t seem like a monopoly. Merchants can offer multiple payment processors, and customers can use a different one for each purchase without any lock-in. PayPal has strong competitors like Stripe and even Apple. They also lost their flagship client, eBay.

In some ways they are for consumer products. There is some percentage of people that won’t buy at all without the option. Then a much bigger percent that will still buy but prefer to use PayPal if you give the option.

In fairness, I still wouldn't call that a monopoly, just a popular choice.

I mean, I know some people who won't drink soft drinks unless it's specifically Coca-Cola and know a lot of people who'll pick Coke as their first choice but they clearly don't a monopoly on cola drinks.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#119

Post by jokethrowaway » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #99

tinus_hn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

I love how Americans are totally fine with paying a tax on every transaction they make in order to protect random people from occurrences of financial fraud, yet are vehemently opposed to exactly the same system for healthcare. I mean, rationally you would expect the opposite: people typically don't do $10k+ transactions using credit cards, so a worst case consequence of fraud you're not protected from is quite small…

Americans really don't have a choice, the merchants are making the rules and offering a service.

Anyway Americans pay pretty high taxes, they're comparable to Europe (albeit not as high as crazy countries like Italy, Spain or France, I have no idea how those countries can even survive). I'm sure they'd be more than happy if the government were spending less and letting them to pay less taxes and buy a private insurance instead.

The problem with the US healthcare and higher education is not being private, it's being too expensive - tldr thanks to government intervention some actors got away with massively raising prices with no competition

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#120

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

retrobox wrote: post #87

systemvoltage wrote: post #29

I run a SMB with $1.2M in transactions per year through various online storefronts. Paypal/Stripe are the most common forms of payment, but to my surprise the split is 70%(Paypal), 30%(Stripe including Apple/GPay/Alipay). We see a consistent behavior that perhaps incidates Paypal is far easier to use than Stripe. I feel like the slightest friction in the choice between payment options and it will win. Paypal offers t…

I wonder if PayPal’s consumer protection is also part of the appeal? I had to use the dispute resolution once. The merchant become unresponsive to all other means. PayPal ruled in my favour and provided a refund. I’m not sure a credit card chargeback would have been as simple.

I once had a set of headphones (back when Bose Beats wireless were popular and you got a free one on academic discount when buying a MacBook Air) sell on eBay, with receipt confirmed but the buyer did a chargeback claiming the purchase was unauthorized.

I don’t understand all the circumstances, but PayPal let me keep the money. Dunno if they successfully won the dispute with the issuer or if PayPal ate the loss.