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Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

stanfordreview.org

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Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#111

Post by the-dude »

Delk wrote: post #109
the-dude wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, along those lines. Yes, I can confirm there is no discouragement of cycling. Like ever, not even when you are totally drunk.

Having visited Amsterdam once, I'm honestly a little surprised there are so few cycling accidents. The number of bikes is huge and the flow of it looked a bit like a controlled chaos. The Dutch seem to have understood the street smarts and the unwritten rules of cycling (as applies to their environment) really well, so that probably explains it, along with a cycling-friendly environment.

Remember we learn as very young kids, not only to properly cycle, but also the limits while playing.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#112

Post by cratermoon »

dwaltrip wrote: post #93
cratermoon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with anything? They aren't immune to COVID-19.

You honestly think COVID is more dangerous to a college student than a head injury?

That's not what I said.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#113

Post by Delk »

the-dude wrote: post #111
Delk wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having visited Amsterdam once, I'm honestly a little surprised there are so few cycling accidents. The number of bikes is huge and the flow of it looked a bit like a controlled chaos. The Dutch seem to have understood the street smarts and the unwritten rules of cycling (as applies to their environment) really well, so that probably explains it, along with a cycling-friendly environment.

Remember we learn as very young kids, not only to properly cycle, but also the limits while playing.

I'm sure it's something that becomes instinctive, and that develops best at a young age even if it can be learned a bit later as well.

I don't know if the environment regarding play is somehow different to other European countries so I'm not sure what you mean with that. I believe engaging in play that tests one's limits without risk of serious injury makes a person more aware of one's body and limits, though, and I find it a good idea, too. I wonder if the Dutch have a different culture somehow in that respect.

I also learned to ride a bike as a child, and so do most others where I live, but the culture regarding what's considered safe or typical cycling is somewhat different here.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#114

Post by cratermoon »

phonypc wrote: post #102
cratermoon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a thought experiment, not a statement of fact.

"the potential for needing medical care, hospitalization, or funeral services which could result in someone else being unable to receive care is similar" reads as a (patently false) supposed fact. There is no plausible future in which medical care needs to be rationed due to an overwhelming number of bicycle accidents.

The best thought experiments start with what may appear to be, or are in fact, false premises.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#115

Post by cratermoon »

thinkingemote wrote: post #94
isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wearing a helmet does not affect people around you.

Others can see you.

To the extent you mean "others will see your behavior and possibly emulate it as part of a social norm", you're correct. If a critical mass of bicyclists wears helmets, the social pressure to conform to helmet-wearing would result in higher rates. Conversely, saying, "I don't see anyone else wearing a helmet, why should I?" is also a consequence of social norms; norms can override rational risk/reward choices.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#116

Post by bradlys »

cratermoon wrote: post #85
isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rate at which people catch covid and get hospitalized is incomparably higher to the rate that people are getting brain injuries from riding a bike. You can use the same "philosophical experiment" to ban being fat or drinking alcohol.

> to ban being fat or drinking alcohol. No, you can't. At least not unless you ignore research and still believe that weight gain and addiction are purely choices and can be morally condemned. See e.g. Addiction is a brain disease, and it matters: Leshner, A. I. (1997). Addiction is a brain disease, and it matters. Science (New York, N.Y.), 278(5335), 45–47. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.278.5335.45

Your amount of social interaction is also a choice that will dictate your ability to get Covid. Should be obvious that this is comparable to your example from the lockdowns that have been ineffective.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#117

Post by bradlys »

taeric wrote: post #44
Robelius wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also hit your head after tripping while walking, but people don’t wear helmets on walks. I think the point was that there is a comfortable level of risk people are willing to take. If you remove cars from the equation, then the perceived risk is much lower while biking.

Falling on a stationary bike is a lot easier than you'd imagine. And the extra foot off the ground that you will be, can easily add to the damage. I remember when I first started using clipless peddles, you free the foot on the wrong side, and odds are high you are hitting the ground. Stupid easy to do.

This is a trivially small amount of people. If it wasn’t - people wouldn’t even bother with learning how to clip in. They’d be like, “oh no, clipless pedals is what killed my pa back in ‘04.”

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#118

Post by cratermoon »

pessimizer wrote: post #95
cratermoon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike Literally blaming the victim. Not a good look.

This is a discussion about helmet-wearing, which is voluntary. The entire discussion is about whether a victim deserves blame. Don't retreat into easy clichés.

"Voluntary" doesn't count for much within in a system in which the individual is held responsible for choices constrained by that system. Absolving literally everything except one person is blaming the victim.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#119

Post by cratermoon »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #75
cratermoon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike Literally blaming the victim. Not a good look.

Kali Lindsay? Victim of what? Either way it was her actions that led her to getting brain injuries.

> it was her actions

Actions within a system in which better choices were not available. There's no reason to lay the blame at the feet of the victim in that system.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#120

Post by krastanov »

bkohlmann wrote: post #106
scrose wrote: post #5

It’s interesting that the OP didn’t also consider that people wear masks on bikes to block out truck and car fumes and other particles that tend to fly in your face. I rarely wear a helmet when biking, but there’s a noticeable benefit when I’m biking around traffic and don’t have to breath in car exhaust because I’m wearing a mask.

OP here - I was on the Stanford campus in 2016 and 2017, frequently riding my bike there. Never once saw a mask on a bike rider. Very little car traffic on the routes bicyclists regularly use to get around. Also a frequent bike rider in my new city of Dallas. Very rarely (if ever), have I seen a cyclist (even on roads) wear a mask. Very likely masks on the Stanford campus are in response to COVID.

I also did not wear a mask when biking before COVID. Now, having easy access to masks, I would rarely bike without one, if I am near traffic, because of the better air it provides. Fair point about lack of traffic on campus though.
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