I followed up a 6 months entrepreneurship training, and we had a zoom with a facebook employee teaching us how to make instagram stories (changing the font color, using the boomrang effects etc).
Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
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Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I ask this sincerely: what makes you an expert on the motives and culture of Facebook, where you feel you can authoritatively state that their problems are “not specific” to them? Because, as someone who has spent time with the founders and early executives, I think you’re flat-out wrong. These are people who were way more obsessed with manipulating people and society than any other group of people I’ve encountered —…
I was approaching the problem from the financial/business angle of it. Facebook and similar businesses work on the basis of "engagement" - the more you get people to "engage", the more they look at ads and the more money you make, so your incentive is to maximize this engagement by any legal means possible. This isn't specific to Facebook. Whether there are more sociopaths in Facebook than a typical social media comp…
Yeah, you can’t just sort of observe things from a distance and make hand-wavy statements regarding regulation.
You’re not the only one to do this, of course — it’s actually one of the Facebook’s preferred talking points for journalists and politicians, as it turns their specific problems into an “industry-wide problem” — but your position is not accurate given the specific context of the company, its strategy, its executives, and its super-voting-shareholders.
What you’re saying is a bit like, “we need stronger regulations on knives or we are just going to keep having a serial killer problem.” If you don’t know the specifics of the situation — which, sorry you don’t, and simply being a user of these products or working in tech doesn’t give you any deep insight — you should try to avoid making claims that imply expertise.
It’s a bit like defending the Catholic Church because you’ve read the Bible — there’s no correlation, my friend (and I didn’t choose that example randomly). You’re all over this thread defending people you don’t know, about situations about which you don’t have knowledge. A lot of people seem to do this, this playing defense for free thing, for companies once they become big ... It’s a bit weird.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I ask this sincerely: what makes you an expert on the motives and culture of Facebook, where you feel you can authoritatively state that their problems are “not specific” to them? Because, as someone who has spent time with the founders and early executives, I think you’re flat-out wrong. These are people who were way more obsessed with manipulating people and society than any other group of people I’ve encountered —…
I dont get the framing of facebook as master manipulators of women. Kids feel bad on instagram because they can compare themselves to other.
Let’s start at the beginning:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creat...
You can work your way forward from there.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#114"One Facebook researcher said a colleague was contacted by the legal team in the past week and was asked about a research report that he published more than two years ago. The legal team appeared to be hunting for any potentially incriminating research that might be shared with reporters, he said.
His manager had advised him not to run any queries searching for specific terms on his old work or do anything that could appear suspicious, he said.
Now, he said he was told, was a good time to take a vacation."
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#115We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…
>> We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it I wonder why Snapchat is never included in any discussion regarding behavioral experiments. Facebook/Instagram to Snapchat stories is like Time/Vogue Magazine to tabloids. (This is not to defend FB) I’m just curious why Snapchat and its st…
I use both products daily and while Snap is not immune from similar effects it seems to be designed to reduce the problems that IG is facing (body issues, viral misinformation). No one can see how popular you are or aren't unless you choose to reveal it and there's less focus on every post being 'perfect'. It's closer to iMessage on the communications apps spectrum.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#116We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…
> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company $X is such a terrible human manipulation $enterprise. Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society. To take action against FB, one would establish precedent to curtail many types of widely-accepted manipulation and exploitation, not to mention corporate machiavellianism. (Machiavelli seems thoroughly benign these days.) "Social media…
i didnt speak about taking legal action but at least creating some societal resistance to its manipulative nature. FB is primarily a manipulation tool because it shapes and gamifies the way any kind of information is delivered, from baby pics to shopping and politics. Its social mechanics is a form of drug, yet people normally dont give drugs to their kids, and they prevent them from many addictive behaviors. In any case, kids will grow up and look back to that treadmill as silly. But i keep wondering what do all those people who work for facebook think they are doing
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#117"One Facebook researcher said a colleague was contacted by the legal team in the past week and was asked about a research report that he published more than two years ago. The legal team appeared to be hunting for any potentially incriminating research that might be shared with reporters, he said. His manager had advised him not to run any queries searching for specific terms on his old work or do anything that could…
Yeah, what this article doesn’t talk about is the pretend-FBI that Facebook employs as its security team. They go out of their way to intimidate employees and make them think that Facebook is some quasi-governmental institution where leaks will have you end up in a situation similar to Julian Assange.
(Feel free to say hi to those losers, because they’re definitely reading this thread.)
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#118We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…
> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company $X is such a terrible human manipulation $enterprise. Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society. To take action against FB, one would establish precedent to curtail many types of widely-accepted manipulation and exploitation, not to mention corporate machiavellianism. (Machiavelli seems thoroughly benign these days.) "Social media…
>Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society
This is different from what we have seen before.
This is an Emergent system operating at population scale, at speeds we haven't experienced before, where no one can tell you, including FB, what might emerge out the system tomorrow morning.
This is very different from political corrruption or big oil/mil complex/wall st etc playing games. Their games dont run this fast.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#119I don't like Facebook or Instagram either. (I have a Facebook account that's used for one thing -- college and high-school reunion information. I have added no friends that aren't part of these groups. I'm 58 years old.)
But when I see this:
> , including teenage girls saying that Instagram made them feel worse about themselves.
...I wonder if we really can blame Instagram for this. It's like the old joke "Doctor -- it hurts when I do this."
And I'll even go further to say sometimes a little "competition" is healthy. Maybe seeing a friend who is more athletic or fit than you, or has a better sense of style will inspire you to up your game. If your reaction is to "feel bad about yourself" may its your problem. Are we blaming Instagram for bad parenting?
(I do think an Instagram service specifically for children is a terrible idea.)
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#120We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…
> Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? To be fair, isn't this how every generation looks down on the next generation? > We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Sorry, we can't leave this to armchair psychologists.
i m not talking about looking down, this isnt teenagers being edgy. Narcissism is something most people can easily recognize and it s generally considered unhealthy. Parents usually dont feed their children unhealthy stuff, addictive drugs or habits. Same way maybe they should stop being dazzled by technology and reconsider what is happening. If you suggest that compulsive narcissism is a harmless thing, maybe it is, but what s the definition of harm here.
I also dont think that "doesn't cause her to kill herself" is the criterion that people use to decide what's appropriate for their kids. Unless you think that parenting is reduntant