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Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

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Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#111

> As an American citizen, I find it absolutely outrageous that our government would be contemplating kidnapping or assassinating somebody without any judicial process... I clipped it at an unfair point, but remember Anwar al-Awlaki? Obama ordered the execution of a US citizen in a foreign country without trial.

If I'm not mistaken this is allowed by the US law.

Eh, only sort of. The Supreme Court only ruled that no one had standing to sue, either before or after it happened.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#112

> As an American citizen, I find it absolutely outrageous that our government would be contemplating kidnapping or assassinating somebody without any judicial process... I clipped it at an unfair point, but remember Anwar al-Awlaki? Obama ordered the execution of a US citizen in a foreign country without trial.

If I'm not mistaken this is allowed by the US law.

It's illegal and was probably on its face grounds for convicting Obama along with a laundry list of former executives except nobody has the political will to do it.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#113
The CIA out to be fully disbanded with anyone who participated in illegal actions like assassinations or torture prosecuted. You can't fix an agency that believes in its institutional guts its above moral and criminal law. I don't know how you possibly get from here to a government we can actually be proud of instead of ashamed.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#114
post #81
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a long way from understanding international law, but I thought one of the principles of Westphalian sovereignty was that the highest power of a nation was its own government and never a different government? It might not be illegal under US law, but London isn’t in the USA.

Say it's illegal. "What are you gonna do about it?"

Well indeed, but that’s not what I was responding to.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#116

The interesting bit I didn't know was the article says that Wikileaks did not publish the complete contents of the Vault 7 materials they had. Not sure whether they just published shasums of the bits they didn't, or if they proved some other way they had parts they were holding back as leverage. It's odd to read what was really at stake. Pompeo's team was ready to assasinate Assange in London, and the only thing stop…

> Most people saw how the sausage was made and decided they still liked sausage.

I'm not sure that's really true. All of the stuff Snowden and Assange leaked was very much down-played by the popular media - it felt like it was very under-reported and even then with a fair bit of bias.

If you ask some people about how they feel now, they'll say that it wouldn't affect them "because they haven't done anything wrong", or "but Assange is a rapist!", or even "that's just movie stuff, conspiracy bullshit".

I really believe that the population at large either don't believe what the CIA are doing, are in denial about it, or just don't care because it largely affects brown people in far off lands.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could go through each point, but let's start with Lincoln, you only took half the quote, what he said was: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." The rest of your propaganda falls apart just as easily. You talk like someone from the 50 ce…

I added the ellipse to indicate there was more to the quote (originally, not an edit). The remainder of the quote doesn't affect the message at all. The message is that Lincoln was not ideologically for emancipation at the beginning of the war. He was pragmatic about it. All he cared about was keeping the union intact. If he could have won the war without freeing a single slave, he would have done so-- his own words.…

Look, Regan was a hack, and a criminal but there's no evidence of the CIA selling crack, it's a conspiracy theory. John Kerry in 1986 tried to prove that it happened [1] but the committee never found evidence. They did point to funding of the Contras who in some cares were themselves involved in trafficking, but that's it. There's no solid evidence. You could point to the reporting by the San Jose Mercury, but it's mostly circumstantial.

Now it could be sort of true if you squint and tilt your head, but it's far from conclusive and the narrative of "Reagan selling crack cocaine" is totally unsupported.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Committee_report

edit - I'm more or less an anarchist and think that the state is evil, so a lot of what you're saying fits my priors really well. hat said, I think it's important to come armed with facts when criticizing power and the state. When we make overblown or false statements, it undermines the case.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honourable? This guy sent helicopters full of swat teams to arrest a single guy - Kim Dotcom. The whole thing was super illegal and almost hilariously over the top. "Almost" because there was nothing amusing about the whole thing. It was ugly

Honorable, no. Funny, yes. Deserved, certainly. Let's not forget that Kim Dotcom is a miserable piece of shit who rats on his friends and used his position of trust to snoop through people's data and then snitch to governments and criminals for profit. Not enough people know his real history but the guy is a pure scumbag, credit card fraud criminal and con artist masquerading as freedom-loving CEO. He's exactly the k…

I knew some dodgy things about that guy, but you seem to have more information, care to share? I would be most interested to read it.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#119

Assange needs to keep going. The Mandela moment is only a couple of political cycles away.

Nah. He has no uMkhonto we Sizwe behind him, nor a nation state financing, training, and arming his comrades, nor a wave of public opinion nor a wide international boycott of his enemies. Just a lonely guy rotting in prison.

> Nah. He has no uMkhonto we Sizwe behind him,

You can change that

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#120

I don't see how anybody could read this and then pretend that Assange has any chance of a fair trial in America. Not only were his communication constantly monitored for years, already a breach of client attorney privilege, the US considered flagrant assassination as a potential way to handle him. I've heard many people say that Assange committed actual crimes and it's time for him to face the consequences of those a…

Well, now that he’s been capture by the USA, we’ll soon know whether he committed anything thanks to his trial, right? Wait, has it been more than a year without trial already?

Erm, last I checked the U.K. justice system wasn’t the “USA”.

The U.K. just denied the US extradition request, so the US isn’t even close to “capturing” Assange.

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