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Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

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Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#111

Post by indigochill »

ransom1538 wrote: post #96
simias wrote: post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

Off topic. Do firings come out of the blue though? I was a VP for a while (not anymore) - but when the person I had to fire was about to get fired, they KNEW it as soon as the door opened. Firing someone is the worst experience ever - the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.

I've seen a couple of mass layoffs. How much you see that coming can be a function of how close to the decision-making you are and how familiar you are with the process. As I've advanced, I've progressively seen it coming farther out. But the first one was totally out of the blue to me.

Individual firings seem a bit more predictable.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#112

Post by 7402 »

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

In the places I've worked (always in the U.S.), although there may be a procedure the managers have to go through when firing or laying off someone (which does involve HR), I believe it is often considered part of the manager's job to be the one who personally delivers the bad news.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#113

Post by chokma »

terramex wrote: post #11

As a more general advice - person in position of power should not joke about causing harm. Whether is is manager joking about firing employee, stronger person joking about beating up weaker one or parent joking about throwing child out of house when they misbehave. This kind of humor works only when it is coming from weaker position and even then only in certain situations.

In school, we had a teacher who as famous for making jokes at the expense of others. One time during chemistry in front of the class he said to his most-liked pupil: "We have enough poison here to kill everyone in class. Well, except me and you, of course."

And that was the time the class decided to go to our head teacher and tell her that his jokes were not funny at all and she reported back that our chemistry teacher was surprised about how someone did not appreciate his brand of humor.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#114

Post by FreezerburnV »

PeterisP wrote: post #97
michaelt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In medium/large companies, 99.9% of employees can be fired at the end of a HR process and that HR process is something only their line manager can start. And while transferring an inept employee to another manager might save you some paperwork, it'll make that manager an enemy (unless the employee's performance is much improved by the move). So many managers would do the paperwork.

From the perspective of that HR process, they generally care about the employee as much (or as little) as about that manager. A manager may start some process, but HR might as well consider that it's better (or easier?) for the organization to replace that manager instead of replacing that individual contributor.

I'm not sure I've ever heard a story where a manager attempts to fire someone, but HR decides to replace the manager instead. Is that something you've seen? I only hear stories about managers being protected as hard as possible by HR.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#115

Post by dustintrex »

PeterisP wrote: post #97
michaelt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In medium/large companies, 99.9% of employees can be fired at the end of a HR process and that HR process is something only their line manager can start. And while transferring an inept employee to another manager might save you some paperwork, it'll make that manager an enemy (unless the employee's performance is much improved by the move). So many managers would do the paperwork.

From the perspective of that HR process, they generally care about the employee as much (or as little) as about that manager. A manager may start some process, but HR might as well consider that it's better (or easier?) for the organization to replace that manager instead of replacing that individual contributor.

In any remotely sane company, HR does what management says. The manager may well be replaced, but it's the manager's manager or someone even higher in the food chain who makes that call, not HR on their own.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#116

Post by egypturnash »

I run a Mastodon instance and every time one of my users posts a really, really terrible pun there is such a strong temptation to say "oh god that was terrible, you're banned forever". And then I stop and think about how a few of the people on there have some really bad social anxiety, and I find some other way to say "holy shit that was a terrible pun, well done".

It's a similar thing, I think. I'm unexpectedly in a position of power over my friends and I want to efuse it with jokes.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#117

Post by some_random »

Here's another one that's a bit less obvious: anytime you're scheduling a 1x1 with a report, ALWAYS mention the reason for the meeting. You might think it's obvious or that it's just a normal meeting, but you have no idea how the other person will take it.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#118

Post by softwaredoug »

People in positions of authority often don't realize how outsized the impact of their words are. As peers, things people would take as jokes now are taken much more seriously. Employees will read between the lines on anything said, body language, etc from their management. It's important to reinforce team security and trust, and be very self aware about how you sound.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#119

Post by duxup »

When I had my first stint as a manager (way too young to be one IMO) I learned quickly that jokes from manager guy had to be VERY innocuous. Puns are fun, but nothing about work that someone might be sensitive to. Keep the jokes themselves postive-ish. Know the room very well before you tread anywhere else.

It's just way too easy to send the wrong message.

As a manager your words have a great deal of WEIGHT regardless of your intention.

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