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Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#111

Post by BeetleB »

Grustaf wrote: post #77
AlotOfReading wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you're coming from, but in the interests of education it should be pointed out that a significant amount of destruction of native sites has occurred within "our" lifetimes. For instance, many suburbs in Chandler, AZ were directly built on bulldozed Hohokam pueblos in the 50s-80s. The power plant in Needles, CA was built over what was formerly the largest geoglyph in North America during the 70s, de…

That's insane, one would have thought that would have been protected at least since the early 1900s.

Add another one to the list:

In the 1950's, the Dalles Dam was built and submerged one of North America's longest continuously populated settlement (over 10,000 years).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celilo_Falls

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#113

Post by cheese_van »

I did a solid for an archaeologist once in the Middle East and so stayed in the dig camp awhile.

It struck me how eager archaeologists were to get to work, and how happy they were in the field. Hot as hell, dusty, disease ridden, flies, bad food. And they were ecstatic.

They were all poor as fuck though, so there are trade offs.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#114

Post by varenc »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #8

The paper isn't on Sci-Hub yet... Does anyone have access?

I found it here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354598853_Life-size...

direct link: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yamandu-Hilbert/publica...

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#116

Post by mannerheim »

delecti wrote: post #60
duxup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many places have the geology for these massive stone walls that can be carved and ... folks saw it and thought "Man we should make this really big sculpture!". My imagination makes me think that it's a pretty obvious thing to do for any number of reasons and that there have been quite a few that have been lost to time.

As evidenced by the amount of grafitti in public places, people just really like leaving their mark wherever they can. There's grafitti in ancient ruins that (aside from the language) could be mistaken for grafitti in a bathroom stall. People are just gonna people.

There is runic Old Norse graffiti in the Hagia Sophia that probably originally said something along the lines of 'so-and-so wrote this': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_So...

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#117

Post by Zenst »

Whilst these may seem old, for some perspective - statues have been dated back to 35-40k years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-man

So one wonders what is still to be found, what was lost to sea level changes or other climate erosion over time. But the level of craftsmanship old times long past still amazes me as the skills to achieve that was far more common in those times as a percentage of the populous than it is today. Which as tools developed, we have shifted that level of hand craftsmanship towards expensive art today.

Equally, one wonders what structures we build today would still be around in an equally period of time - building wise, not many that spring to mind and even then, not sure how the ravages of time would effect them. Certainly a large exercise but I wonder if anybody has done any climate modelling for that kind of duration and how today's monuments around the world would endure. Makes you wonder what would be left as even plastics would break down after 500 years - let alone 8,000 or 40,000 years from now.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#118

Post by laurent92 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #78
sophacles wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, id find those interesting too - I've always found archaeology grabs my attention. Once I asked a local archaeologist about why articles are always like that, and she told me that there's also a problem with looters. They try to only release pictures that don't give away the location, to prevent looters from ruining a site. Not sure if that's a general thing or her specific area of expertise.

Depends on the location. You usually don't release wide landscape shots if that's a major concern, but super localized photos aren't necessarily an issue. Not all areas take the same degree of precaution though (e.g., scheduled monuments in the UK are pretty much public). Anyway, if you'd like an example of an "onsite" photo, I've uploaded one from an ancient settlement (2k+ years old): https://i.imgur.com/0ITzYZD.pn…

Internet Historian is humorously documenting that it is possible to pinpoint the worldwide location of a flag with only the blue sky behind, or inside a hut lost in lapland, or inside a flat without outside light, or even a stone buried somewhere in the world (South of Spain). https://youtu.be/vw9zyxm860Q

I understand it would be possible with a photo to guess which side a rock faces, thanks to the sun/shadows, and then find all the rocks pointing this way in a country using satellite image, and filtering those which are not currently at war etc.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#119

Post by mannerheim »

ducktective wrote: post #76
AlotOfReading wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have still been hot and relatively arid, just less so. These camels are native to all of North Africa, Arabia, and the middle east. There's a lot of different environments in that range.

The theory parent is mentioning, doesn't just talk about "less hot and less arid" but a lush green and very favorable for agriculture. If these people went as far as to carve camels in stones, that would mean these animals were prevalent in their areas and way of life which is in direct conflict with assuming their land were anything but hot and arid. I have heard of the theory about different climate of Egypt and Ir…

Arizona is very hot, very arid, and also very favourable for agriculture, with significant production of lettuce and cotton. As long as you can make sure your crops get water through irrigation (which ancient Mesopotamians were very skilled at), your crops will thrive. In fact, the heat and sunlight actually provide a bit of an advantage.

However, a number of factors eventually led to the collapse of the civilisations in the fertile crescent. One factor has been the region getting warmer and drier, which poses a challenge even with irrigation. As an example of how different the climate is now from what it was then, Uruk used to be on a channel of the Euphrates, but now that riverbed is completely dried up. Meanwhile, Ur was once a coastal city, but is now ten miles inland.

Another factor for the collapse of these civilisations is that the process of irrigation accumulated salt in the soil. The very process that made complex civilisation possible in this part of the world eventually contributed to its end.

I recommend the Fall of Civilizations podcast for more on this and other societies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2lJUOv0hLA

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#120

Post by kergonath »

illwrks wrote: post #22

I was about to say they have a powerful imagination to see camels in that eroded rock... however after a quick search, there are better photos online: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-2-000-year-old-...

It’s annoying that an article with this title has such a poor picture, even though much better ones are a quick search away. They talk about mind-boggling realism, but you would not believe it just from this photo. Thanks for the link!
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