Problems with Oracle SQL • Hacker News Board

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#111

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #107

JacKTrocinskI wrote: post #13

I have worked with the Oracle database for six years and haven't had any major issues with error messages, in fact I'd say Oracle did a really great job building an amazing database.

Oracle was the first DB I did major work with (12 yrs ago). I have fond memories of that time. I created an automated warehouse management system with it Pros: - pl/sql (I like it more than other flavors of sql, maybe because it was the first one I used a lot) -pl sql developer. Not the java one (sql developer). I loved that you could see tabs in a list and in general it was smooth. I still keep a thin client in my s…

> pl/sql (I like it more than other flavors of sql, maybe because it was the first one I used a lot)

pl/sql is not a flavor of SQL, it is a name for the separate SQL-based “procedural” (imperative) language (hence the “pl”) supported by Oracle. The Oracle SQL dialect is usually referred to as “Oracle SQL” if there is a need to distinguish it.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#112

Post by TruthWillHurt » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

I remember automating the deployment of Oracle DB to OpenStack using Ansible. Finished playbook took 45 minutes to run, and that's starting from a pre-configured snapshot!

Plus, Oracle charges per-cpu core used, so we had to license an entire portion of our datacenter...

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#113

Post by laumars » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #17

munk-a wrote: post #8

I've worked with databases for a while now and I've never advocated for moving to Oracle (I have advocated for postgres though). The long term organizational costs is a big factor - but an almost equally large factor is the fact that 1. I have never actually used their dialect and have heard absolutely terrible things about it 2. There is no non-enterprise DBMS available that uses something close to their dialect so…

Oracle sells to executives, not technical staff. Training on Oracle tech is via certified classes, provided “free” by your employer as part of their licensing deal; not online discovery. Source: sold to and worked with Oracle Inc. for several years, got a front row seat at the sausage factory.

It’s more than that. Oracle is sold off the back of its middleware applications. Which equally suck too…but at least they’re solving difficult problems that most other database vendors don’t both with.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#114

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

_ZeD_ wrote: post #29

JacKTrocinskI wrote: post #13

I have worked with the Oracle database for six years and haven't had any major issues with error messages, in fact I'd say Oracle did a really great job building an amazing database.

you have been really lucky, then.

Really lucky on commission on Oracle sales :-)

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#115

Post by pas » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #90

torginus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why the hate against MSDN - at least for .NET, I found the documentation to be one of the best in the business -even a decade ago. I'd only put Go's docs ahead in terms of helpfulness. I cut my teeth writing .NET code, then switched to Java writing apps on Android - the step down in doc quality was quite significant.

MSDN and the whole ecosystem around it is a gem. MSFT isn't great at some (or even many) things but I've always felt MSFT really put a lot of effort into developer experience. I don't miss much about moving away from the MSFT orbit except for MSDN and their development tooling. I kind of got some of it back with Visual Studio Code but I still really miss the Visual Studio level of experience.

Well, PowerShell docs are next to useless. Maybe the other parts are better. But I think this mythos of great docs for proprietary MS stuff is just that, a myth.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#116

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

JaggerFoo wrote: post #58

Oracle SQL is not the devil. I can code up SQL easily and find errors. I use sqldeveloper and granted It's not as helpful as say coding Dart on Android Studio IDE in pinpointing where a problem is and making suggestions. But I've been able maintain single sql statements 800 lines long, perform knapsack in a single sql statement, and develop complex packages in Oracle. If you really want to see super complexity, downl…

APEX just exists to lock people even further into the database. A literal antipattern of a product.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#117

Post by revscat » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #113

ericbarrett wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle sells to executives, not technical staff. Training on Oracle tech is via certified classes, provided “free” by your employer as part of their licensing deal; not online discovery. Source: sold to and worked with Oracle Inc. for several years, got a front row seat at the sausage factory.

It’s more than that. Oracle is sold off the back of its middleware applications. Which equally suck too…but at least they’re solving difficult problems that most other database vendors don’t both with.

Such as?

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#118

Post by simonw » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

There was a comment on here a few years ago from a developer with experience working on the Oracle database codebase which put me off it for life: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442941

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#119

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

zabzonk wrote: post #55

vbezhenar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day MS SQL was Windows-only and Postgres was not mature, so the choice was Oracle or DB2. And Oracle was more popular, because it used more progressive model (versions vs DB2 locks). Plenty of people who don't closely follow recent trends associate database with Oracle, so when they have a word, they'll choose it. Oracle it not that bad anyway, it's just stupidly expensive. I'd choose Postgres any day, bu…

> so the choice was Oracle or DB2 Sybase, Ingres

Worth noting, that Microsoft SQL Server started life as a Sybase fork.

Re: Problems with Oracle SQL

#120

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

pas wrote: post #115

hangonhn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSDN and the whole ecosystem around it is a gem. MSFT isn't great at some (or even many) things but I've always felt MSFT really put a lot of effort into developer experience. I don't miss much about moving away from the MSFT orbit except for MSDN and their development tooling. I kind of got some of it back with Visual Studio Code but I still really miss the Visual Studio level of experience.

Well, PowerShell docs are next to useless. Maybe the other parts are better. But I think this mythos of great docs for proprietary MS stuff is just that, a myth.

Yeah, I’ve tried a handful of Microsoft products and MSFT’s docs are ok for tutorials, but I’ve often found it hard to find useful reference documentation: e.g. the tutorial bits of Appcenter’s Codepush and UI Testing documentation are ok, but the reference documentation for both is ambiguous and/or incomplete.