Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming you already know what a rational number is, the next step is to tell you what a real number is. A real number is defined as the equivalence class of all sequences of rational numbers that converge to the same value. For example, every sequence of rational numbers that gets arbitrarily close to the square root of two as you go to higher terms is considered "the square root of two." If you don't know what a ra…
Instead of assuming an understanding of what natural numbers are, you could have continued to define all of them as equivalence classes, as that is what they are. The integers are the equivalence classes of differences of natural numbers, while the natural numbers are the equivalence classes of finite sets having the same number of elements (i.e. which may have a bijection between themselves), including the empty set…
Intermediate Algebra
111–120 of 121 posts
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#112Sorry for the rant but as a math lover this is terrible. In my experience "algebra 2" is taught for multiple years and is in my opinion the most boring soul crushing math I was taught. And I say taught because its forced into you with very few interesting observations and thinking. It focuses on memorizing formula's a procedures, which while these things have there applications I don't consider someone who can say y=…
I'm definitely feeling the effects of this now trying to get back into math. It's frustrating because I can tell exactly what's happening: I get the same kinds of problems wrong over and over again and exhaust the question bank. The next time around I recognize the problem and basically just solve it from memory. Do you have any recommendations for learning math the right way? Or a better way at least.
I am not blaming you here but this mentality "The next time around I recognize the problem and basically just solve it from memory." Raises alarm bells for me. To me this says you are not engaging critically with a problem and arguable your pervious sentence tells me why. You are going over and over a problem which is fundamentally the same which is a disengaging process of learning and reasoning.
My suggestion is to focus less on you got the problem wrong and rather diagnosis why you got it wrong. Which is a very difficult thing to do alone. If you share a problem and the mistake you got I could try and help you. In general thought for me there are 2 major types of errors I run into when doing math. Yours may vary, but mine are Arithmetic errors and not understanding the theories.
Arithmetic -- i.e i said something like 1+1=3 somewhere and everything is wrong now. This happens a surprisingly a lot but the usually go back and check all your calculations almost never finds this issue for me. (if possible) I do have a lot more success with plug your answer back into the question and calculating what your input should be. This leads to the second point
Understanding the theories (and question) - If you understand what your solution is saying you should be able to find a different question to ask about your answer to be sure its right. If you can't you don't understand what your doing well enough. I have been picking on factoring because its easy to have hard problems that can be solved in many many different ways. But if you factor something essentially you found a zero so you should be able to do 2 things. One is plug your answer in and have the whole expression equal zero after (zero is always easiest to find because math is easy when you can set things to zero.) The other though is divide the the expression by (x-a). This reduce out perfectly and was a major way I checked my errors when I took a cryptography and number theory course.
Understanding something deeply is hard because there is no easy testable why to say that you do get it. But if you can ask questions like how do I know this answer is right its a good sign you have a lot more to learn what your actually doing. My final recommendation if you are trying to learn algebra is take a break from that. Do a intro to proofs class or lesson plan if you've never done that before. Those type of courses are suppose to teach systematic approaches to math that scale beyond do you know a formula that works. They also give you more intuition into what your doing because they teach you to think about the results of what you are saying and give perspective that the "algebra 2" courses you take in high school don't bother to even think about because they are focused on doing problems for problems sake which most people have enough problems they don't need more to solve for fun they want tools to handle a more diverse set better.
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#113Not sure what's the point of section 4.3 Factoring Trinomials introducing "trial and error (or guess and check) method", when this task can be solved easily without any trial and errors, by using 6.2 Quadratic Formula. Shouldn't section 4.3 at least mention that possibility? Is there something I do not understand here?
Try factoring this with the quadratic formula x^5+5x^4+10x^3+10x^2+5x+1. Or try guess and check with -1,0,1. The issue with formula's is that they constrain the space of the problems and ones mind especially. the problem above is factoring is (x+1)^5 but there exists no (and there cannot exist) formula to that can tell you that from the equation. Algebra is taught poorly not because kids don't learn the steps but bec…
But this is not a trinomial and, of course, quadratic formula is not applicable here. My objection was specifically for section 4.3, which does not provide any clues how to extend the described method to more complex polynomials anyway.
> The issue with formula's is that they constrain the space of the problems and ones mind especially.
That I agree with - teaching only to use formulas is bad, - but how to find polynomial roots is not relevant here. The proper way to teach factorization is IMHO to show relations to roots first - which are not necessary to be found by quadratic formula, it may be the same trial and error method, - instead of introducing a special method that works only in very limited cases.
> Algebra is taught poorly not because kids don't learn the steps but because it stunts people into viewing math as if you only had the formula its easier.
Err... learning some steps (without explaining where they come from) is not a proper way to tech math anyway, and I surely do not advocate that. My point was different - instead of teaching some steps to solve particular problem (factoring trinomials), the better approach is to teach the underlying theory and real methods used in modern mathematics.
That is, instead of using factorization as a method of solving polynomial equation, the proper approach is exactly the opposite, using equation roots for the factorization. Well, at least that's how they taught me to do things, and I do believe this is the correct way.
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
What should I read if I want to learn what a number is?
Learn set theory! Specifically ordinals (just one formal defintion of a number) This vsauce video is actually a really accurate (and entertaining!) introduction to set theory: https://youtu.be/s86-Z-CbaHA
So it's like learning data structures by coding in assembly, which is what Donald Knuth thinks is the right thing to do anyway, but some other teachers would disagree. But if you want to see some high level construction, you could look to eg. Tarski's synthetic construction of reals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski%27s_axiomatization_of_t...
Which doesn't build reals using other theories as building blocks; real numbers are real numbers.
Anyway, from the analytic constructions of reals, I'm most partial to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_the_real_numbe...
Which uses integers rather than sets as the building block, and is simpler than many constructions. And, of course integers themselves can be constructed out of sets, but they can be constructed out of lambda calculus terms as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Encoding_datat... among many other constructions - but when we finally define integers, we can abstract away the implementation details (and that's really the crux of the question!)
Anyway there's a discussion of analytic vs synthetic mathematics in this post, https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2015/02/introduction_to... (it seems that part 2 wasn't written unfortunately)
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#115Sorry for the rant but as a math lover this is terrible. In my experience "algebra 2" is taught for multiple years and is in my opinion the most boring soul crushing math I was taught. And I say taught because its forced into you with very few interesting observations and thinking. It focuses on memorizing formula's a procedures, which while these things have there applications I don't consider someone who can say y=…
I'm definitely feeling the effects of this now trying to get back into math. It's frustrating because I can tell exactly what's happening: I get the same kinds of problems wrong over and over again and exhaust the question bank. The next time around I recognize the problem and basically just solve it from memory. Do you have any recommendations for learning math the right way? Or a better way at least.
The problem selection varies widely in difficulty and they all have corresponding solution manuals so you can check your answers and problem-solving approach.
If you were to go through all of them, you would come out with an extremely strong foundation in mathematics that would make undergraduate-level material much more accessible.
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mathematicians have precise definitions of "real numbers", "complex numbers", etc. but not of "number." For example, are the hyperreals numbers? Nonstandard integers? Quaternions?
Mathematicians have definitions of all those things. And if you are working in something like the quaternions so do all the previous you mentioned (real numbers, complex numbers) because they are subsets of the well defined quaternions. I agree in a sense there is no agreed-upon simple non-formal definition which encapsulates all of those together but I think that's unfair to try to do since hyperreals, quaternions,…
Similarly, "crazy" is not a term of art for psychiatry. That doesn't mean a lack of definition, and lacking formalism does not mean inadequate for communication. By using a fuzzy term for communication, you imply a taste in curation and abstraction. It means you don't want to get into the details of what crazy means.
> That is like saying that physicists have no precise definition of "distance" because there is Euclidean distance, Geodesic distance, Hyperbolic distance, Hamming distance, Levenshtein distance etc etc etc
A metric is a term of art, and if that's the level of specificity you wanted, then it's adequate.
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have Artin’s Algebra on my bookshelf, most people who see it always tell me they took it in high school. I’m always impressed.
You know for a few confused seconds I didn't see the joke about the title and took your statement literally, assuming you were talking about some precocious student, who perhaps had been lucky enough to be tutored or concurrently enrolled while still in high school. Funny story, though: this is the upper division algebra text we used at UC Davis, and one amusing anecdote that our professor relayed was that this book…
I know they use a bunch of other ones.
I definitely wouldn’t have been ready to take this as a freshman - my high school math education was definitely lacking.
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right, I didn't teach low level math courses, but this brain washing is also precisely why I didn't understand math in high school. You cannot argue with this kind of definitions. Everything feels as if it was randomly defined by the teacher. This "intuition" simplifies teaching, but makes understanding harder. It is like a game where you invent rules as you play. No student can win this game.
> Everything feels as if it was randomly defined by the teacher. I suppose you prefer things randomly defined by Euclid? Just kidding... kinda. Seriously though, randomly defining things and then working through the consequences of that definition is a totally valid way to do math. Those random definitions are called postulates.
But still most teachers give us the same standard set of axions. Why? What would happen if they dropped some of them or replaced them with others?
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#119> Irrational numbers are defined as any numbers that cannot be written as a ratio of two integers. > Finally, the set of real numbers, denoted R, is defined as the set of all rational numbers combined with the set of all irrational numbers. I'm sorry, this is not how math works. Reals are basically defined as number. But what is a number? Also the definition of Q is missing the quotient construction (or any motivatio…
From the TOC, it looks like an elementary algebra book. Students usually don't see rigorous construction of integers and rationals till classes titled something to the effect of "intro to proofs 101", "intro to discrete analysis", "abstract algebra 101", "elementary general algebra", "elementary set theory", "basics of elementary number theory"... And the construction of reals would have to wait till something like "…
How about instead starting with Lambda Calculus? It's all about functions and how to define them
Re: Intermediate Algebra
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Guess and check pissed me off so much back when I was in school.
I think guess and check pissed you off because its taught as guess a random number and check they don't really teach you how to guess smartly and then you waste your time guessing in the wrong direction mindlessly. Its like teaching stands they should checkout every array slot when there are bits of knowledge that you can teach to do a binary search and get to an answer faster. And the math intuition to build the pat…