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Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

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Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#111

Post by lostapathy »

seattle_spring wrote: post #80
antattack wrote: post #24

I think it's possible that ivermectin could have positive effect (less hospitalizations) on people with parasites who contracted Covid-19. After-all a lot of people die not from Covid-19 but from complications from it. I think the main issue with it's use is, similar to antibiotic resistance, (note that it's not antibiotic or antiviral) overuse will lessen it's effectiveness when needed the most.

Do you have any evidence that doctors are withholding access to anti-parasitic medication for patients who test positive for parasitic infections?

Parent's claim doesn't really require that. I believe they are just theorizing that some people carry unknown parasitic infections and taking anti-parasitics clears that which happens to put them in a batter place to clear covid as well.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#112

Post by OneEyedRobot »

That's odd. A quick look at sci-hub shows a bunch of ivermectin papers that don't look half bad.

I figure that if a physician wants to go off-label on a prescription they should go ahead. Plenty of warnings of course.

Buying it at the feed store along with fish antibiotics is sketchy, but remember that it's your body after all. People forget that. God knows how many people are harmed by Tylenol overdoses.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#113

Post by jimbob45 »

dataflow wrote: post #40
fallingknife wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like when the CDC first said that masks are ineffective to try to keep people from hoarding them. People are wise to the game now, and expect that the CDC is saying things to influence behavior, rather than because they are true. Nobody trusts a salesman.

> It's like when the CDC first said that masks are ineffective to try to keep people from hoarding them. The way I remember it was more like, the CDC said: - They don't know yet if surgical (and in general, non-N95) masks are effective against COVID-19 spread. They never denied this for N95. - Hospitals are running out of surgical (and N95...) masks, and given the above, people should stop hoarding them. That seemed.…

There’s an idea with masks where preventing any infection or virus that you could contract while stricken with COVID will shorten the period of time you have COVID and thus shorten the window in which you are contagious.

That was always true and will always be true. Even if COVID flows right through masks, there will still always be a plausible reason to wear them.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#114

Post by [deleted] »

willcipriano wrote: post #72

A interesting observation I had recently was that some people who tend to have views around recreational drugs that can be described "live and let live" are up in arms about ivermectin. I know a guy who uses horse tranquilizers recreationally who posts on Facebook everyday about the "morons who are taking horse medicine". Personally I don't care if you use either, it isn't my body. We are in a age where you no longer…

[deleted]

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#115

Post by [deleted] »

seattle_spring wrote: post #80
antattack wrote: post #24

I think it's possible that ivermectin could have positive effect (less hospitalizations) on people with parasites who contracted Covid-19. After-all a lot of people die not from Covid-19 but from complications from it. I think the main issue with it's use is, similar to antibiotic resistance, (note that it's not antibiotic or antiviral) overuse will lessen it's effectiveness when needed the most.

Do you have any evidence that doctors are withholding access to anti-parasitic medication for patients who test positive for parasitic infections?

[deleted]

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#116

Post by watwut »

beaner wrote: post #78
watwut wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That person is claiming issue is not about horse version, but about human version. He implies media spread false information when they talk about the issue.

They are. If they weren't, they'd say "People are overdosing on ivermectin by taking doses intended for Horses." Instead they call the drug itself a "horse dewormer," and make it sound like that's its exclusive use, and that it should not be taken by humans in any dose. That's false.

Sounds like you are really splitting hair there.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#117

Post by h2odragon »

willcipriano wrote: post #72

A interesting observation I had recently was that some people who tend to have views around recreational drugs that can be described "live and let live" are up in arms about ivermectin. I know a guy who uses horse tranquilizers recreationally who posts on Facebook everyday about the "morons who are taking horse medicine". Personally I don't care if you use either, it isn't my body. We are in a age where you no longer…

"My body my choice" but we have to have vaccine mandates.

Are we at war with East Asia today?

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#118

Post by toast0 »

cbg0 wrote: post #54
AndrewBissell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivermectin is being prescribed off-label for Covid-19 by tens of thousands of doctors nationwide. Are those "people with no expertise to understand the medical studies"?

> Ivermectin is being prescribed off-label for Covid-19 by tens of thousands of doctors nationwide. [Citation needed] Also, for those that are prescribing it, this is not an FDA approved treatment for Covid.

> for those that are prescribing it, this is not an FDA approved treatment for Covid.

Most (all?) off-label prescriptions aren't FDA approved for that use, that's what makes them off-label. Prescribing drugs off-label is an acceptable practice, although it's generally higher risk to do so than with an FDA approved treatment as there's less information available.

I haven't looked into this particular off-label use, and it certainly has a lot of signs of poor advisability, but one way the medical community figures out what drugs work for conditions with limited treatment options is trying random things and reporting on what seems to work; then those things can be tested in more controlled situations.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#119

Post by OrvalWintermute »

distances wrote: post #35
gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

Ivmmeta is pseudoscientific. It should not be taken seriously by anyone. See a short analysis e.g. at https://mobile.twitter.com/gidmk/status/1422044335076306947 .

It is inappropriate to critique a drug's studies, and to apply them to the overall drug itself.

"because the studies are flawed, the drug is useless"

A more measured response would be to look through the actual studies themselves, ferret out good from bad, and then to draw conclusions.

Additionally, to ask questions about variables for which we know there are a ton of potential reasons why we'd see differences. Foremost being food/drug synergism, prescription requirements, genetic differences in drug MOA, and variation of actual covid type.

It doesn't refute good studies on ivermectin e.g. "the golden hamster" https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202114122

Protocols like Zelenko/McCullough do not list any one drug as a "wonder drug" but instead have a large number of drugs and vitamins to treat all the specific indications in more classes of drugs

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#120

Post by junon »

rajin444 wrote: post #110
junon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't say vaccine hesitancy hasn't been well earned. Sure you can. People spend their entire lives studying this shit, dedicating their entire careers to saving people who sit on facebook all day and post nonsense they hear on podcasts and other credit-less sources. It's not "vaccine hesitancy". It's stupidity. Domain experts know more than your conspiracy-theorist crazy Facebook aunt. There is no conspiracy he…

Do the experts have any long term studies on efficacy (5+ years out)? It seems like they figured out the 6 month (or is it 5? or 8?) window only recently. It also seems learning the vaccine is non sterilizing is new as well. I don't fault them for any of this. Science takes time and iteration. Nobody can account for unknown unknowns - the only solution is time.

What is the alternative?
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