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Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

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Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#111

Post by bogomipz »

AnssiH wrote: post #78
kjksf wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to make a distinction between following a process and abusing a process. Amazon is clearly abusing the process. It's clear to everyone and their mothers that Amazon is abusing the process. Find me one comment that says "yeah, Amazon is totally right about that and SpaceX should not get the permits they are asking for". Abusing a process warrants a bit different response than "oh well, the rules can be abused…

> It's clear to everyone and their mothers that Amazon is abusing the process. Not to me. SpaceX certainly claims so, but they are hardly impartial and I'm not familiar enough with FCC regs to make that judgement myself.

I think the OP may have be referring to the fact that Amazon also recently both filed lawsuit against the DOD for awarding the JEDI project to Microsoft[1] and Blue Origin filed a protest against the G.A.O. for awarding the lunar landing contract to SpaceX[2]. I think when take all 3 of these in the aggregate, it starts to look a bit like bad faith on the part of Bezos and Amazon.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/07/06/pentagon-sc...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/26/science/spacex-moon-blue-...

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#112

Post by manquer »

olivierduval wrote: post #71
bperson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their nimbyism is silly. Nothing is going to hold back this next period. The entire planet will be connected soon and that's when the internet moves out of alpha and into beta. Complaining about a few thousand satellites will seem quant in ten years :P

"The entire planet will be connected soon"... but WHY ???? To allow Facebook (and SV) dream of selling ads all around the world ??? Does the world need it ? Does the world even ask for it ? Sure, I like internet... but only WHERE and WHEN I want to, not anytime and everywhere !

There are hundreds of real world applications that benefit from connectivity.

For example Self driving would really benefit from connectivity for deeper learning models to get to level 5.

Telemedicine , remote learning all have huge potential with connectivity all around the world. Education in developing countries which suffer from lack of infrastructure can (and already does) benefit from tech driven learning

It is easy to say you don't want connectivity everywhere when you don't experience that lack of connectivity a lot of the people do.

It is hard to imagine the kind of applications that will come just like it was hard to imagine what came with web 2.0 /1.0 before .

Also a lot of pressure on urban migration would really reduce with global connectivity. I already know many people moving or considering to move to a rural location with better quality of life only because of starlink.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#113

Post by lhorie »

polote wrote: post #79
mataug wrote: post #49

Amazon always claims to focus on its customers, and ignore its competitors, this is supposed to be an important facet of the "Its always Day 1" philosophy. These actions, along with Amazon's complaints about Jedi contract seem to imply that amazon has now entered day 2. PS: I understand that the circumstances around the Jedi contract are different. I'm just trying to make a point that Amazon is now focussing more on…

You can't focus on your competitors when you don't have competitors. Has Amazon, the website, any competitors? They have an unique proposition, like Apple

Walmart and Costco come to mind for a lot of the sort of shopping I do. Single category retailers often provide better experiences (think Zara, Home Depot). Aliexpress has way wider selection across the board and very cheap prices (though with very long delivery times).

I tend to use Amazon more for the intersection of things that are somewhat niche and that I'd like fast delivery on.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#114

Post by panick21 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #26
staunch wrote: post #5

A good friend of Bezos' (like his brother maybe) needs to pull him aside and tell him how pathetic and sad this tactic is making him look. He's ruining his reputation among people he needs to recruit, like engineers, who might not otherwise fall for the false Bezos-is-mustache-twirling-capitalist narrative. Bezos actually seems to be a fairly good person with good motivations in general. But he's also extremely compe…

Honestly, I think the main difference between Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos is their PR. Elon Musk portrays himself as an affable nerd who posts memes on Twitter, whereas Bezos has forgone a hair transplant and embraced the Lex Luthor look. In the early days of SpaceX, they filed a lawsuit asking the government to dismantle the company that was their main competitor for EELV[1] and no one blinked an eye. I don't think it…

> Elon Musk portrays himself as an affable nerd who posts memes on Twitter

Because that's what he is.

> whereas Bezos has forgone a hair transplant and embraced the Lex Luthor look.

I'm not sure how you that makes sense. Are you saying that if Musk were bold he couldn't be an 'affable nerd'.

> In the early days of SpaceX, they filed a lawsuit asking the government to dismantle the company that was their main competitor for EELV[1] and no one blinked an eye.

Because the government was clearly engaging in totally unfair monopolistic behavior (the government having formed ULA and simply handed it all space launch contracts) that was against the rules government has for itself and SpaceX won this lawsuit.

Since then DoD launches have been handed out with a commercial competition.

SpaceX also filed a law-suit against NASA for engaging in highly anti-competitive favor granting to a competitor for the COTS program. This was recognized and since NASA has done a very good job at commercial selection.

The thing is, people (who are knowledgeable) judge you based on the details of what you do not the broad facts (X filed a lawsuit). SpaceX filed lawsuits against unfair competition and most people interested in space were aware of these unfair practices and wanted them change.

BlueOrigin in contrast profited from the progress SpaceX produced and was able to bid for all NASA programs since. There was competition, they lost, complained and lost and the sued the government (and will certainly lose again) based on what everybody understands to be terrible claims, delaying the whole government moon program.

Amazon in turn has engaged in a years long campaign trying to stop or disrupt Starlink while their own project is and was half a decade behind. Their claims are highly questionable and at times just flat nonsense and have been dismissed multiple times. However each opportunity they come back new reasons to complain. This leaves people who are observing this with only one conclusion, Amazon doesn't care about the details of Starlink proposal and their ongoing efforts with FCC, rather they are simply trying to disrupt and slow down competition.

Details and context matter.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#115

Post by nwsm »

polote wrote: post #91
zdragnar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, Walmart seems the obvious comparison, at least for retail. Much of what you'll find on Amazon, you can find there, including fast, free shipping.

Can you buy things like high end bike parts on Walmart? Or addidas running shoes? Honest question

Can you buy anything high end on Amazon? I wouldn't.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#116

Post by manquer »

olivierduval wrote: post #61
ROARosen wrote: post #15

Without getting too spaced-out with the the Bezos-Musk dynamics, I personally hate the idea of having private companies getting on the SpaceX bandwagon and clogging up outer space with thousands of satellites.

I agree: space is a SHARED place... why should some US corp. be able to pollute it ????? And why should US citizen ONLY have something to say about it ???? I can understand that the US may decide what is above its territory, but I surely dont want to MY french nights with Musk or Bezos satellites... and moreover without my consent !

While there are some rudimentary frameworks for collaboration in space. It is still free for all.

Sovereignty in space above 50 km is complex and not really well established, countries have differing claims like bogota declaration etc.

Most countries launch satellites they don't necessarily tell each other.

There is nothing stopping a French company from doing the same as spaceX.

Infact OneWeb is owned by UK government partially and a Indian teleco Bharti Airtel. They manufacturer satellites in UK (a lot of satellites are manufactured in UK) and launch in Russia.

France or any other country does regulate and operators do respect who can transmit/use radio frequencies within their geographic areas.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#117

Post by robocat »

knubie wrote: post #92

This is slightly off-topic but it always seemed to me that FAANG has a vested interest in making internet access as fast, cheap, and highly available as possible (commoditize your compliment). So I wonder why they went in together on some kind of consortium to make that happen. Google tried their hand a few years ago and didn't get very far, and now it seems like it's Amazon's turn. It would make more sense to me if…

Facebook wants to monopolise the internet connection - they have no interest in sharing with advertising competitors.

In the Phillipines when you get a phone plan or data plan, it includes free Facebook (I haven’t been there for a few years but I presume it is still the same). Many people use the word Facebook to refer to the Internet.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#118

Post by panick21 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #36
CamperBob2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SpaceX lawsuit against Kistler was nothing like the Blue Origin efforts to kneecap SpaceX. They were fighting for survival in a biased competitive environment against a lazy, unproductive, but politically-connected rival. See https://qz.com/emails/space-business/2049413/ . Blue Origin is just rolling rocks downhill on the enemy camp, hoping to get lucky. Because hey, it's easier than putting payloads into orbit,…

I have the opposite takeaway actually. Contract protests are pretty common, although they don't always make it to the Court of Federal Claims. OTOH, filing a lawsuit saying that the government should shut down another launch provider even when you're not competing for the same contracts (yet) seems like more of a kneecapping effort. Like I said, SpaceX and ULA both filed lawsuits before they ever made it to orbit so…

You are taking things out of context. ULA was a government formed monopoly and the Dod basically wanted to hand them a block contract that would basically give them a monopoly for very long time.

SpaceX would have been excluded from Dod flights for basically a decade or more, even within a few years they had the means to compete.

This was clearly a totally anti-competitive and this is why SpaceX won and since then such large block contracts are no longer done. The Dod still hands out too many launches at once but what they tried with ULA initially was far, far worse.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#119

Post by FridayoLeary »

z3ncyberpunk wrote: post #21
marricks wrote: post #11

I disdain the owners of both but Bezos (fairly) seems to get a bit more ire here. The Verge’s piece elaborated that SpaceX hasn’t decided between two configurations and want approval for both even though they will only choose one, so everyone else has to plan around two different configurations. I’m not sure if that’s standard procedure but it does seem a bit unfair to add double work for everyone else.

I'll take the eccentric billionaire actually tackling real issues and making actual headway. People here are too narrow minded and have quarter to quarter short term memory disorder, seeming to forget that Musk and Tesla are the sole reason we have had the progress and momentum towards actually greener technologies, not simply greenwashed corporate nonsense that was churned out year after year without any was actual…

>not simply greenwashed corporate nonsense

Isn't Musk the guy who crashed bitcoin after making a pile of money claiming it was dirty? How much pollution does just one of his mega-sized moon-mission rockets eject? Just for his personal (yes) entertainment.

Rich sportsmen buy expensive cars. Super- rich businessmen play with rocket launches.

Re: Amazon asked FCC to reject Starlink plan because it can’t compete, SpaceX says

#120

Post by panick21 »

olivierduval wrote: post #71
bperson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their nimbyism is silly. Nothing is going to hold back this next period. The entire planet will be connected soon and that's when the internet moves out of alpha and into beta. Complaining about a few thousand satellites will seem quant in ten years :P

"The entire planet will be connected soon"... but WHY ???? To allow Facebook (and SV) dream of selling ads all around the world ??? Does the world need it ? Does the world even ask for it ? Sure, I like internet... but only WHERE and WHEN I want to, not anytime and everywhere !

> Does the world need it ? Does the world even ask for it ?

Yes

> Sure, I like internet... but only WHERE and WHEN I want to, not anytime and everywhere !

Turn of your phone.

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