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The Winners of Remote Work

nytimes.com

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Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#111

Post by altgoogler »

avnigo wrote: post #53

> Google [...] would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office. Avoiding the office saves employees money — in commuting costs, for example I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again. Employees are compensated on the work they provide during work hours, and only rarely do companies provide compensation to specifically accommodate…

> In June, Google told rank-and-file employees it would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office.

To echo the statement from the other Googler who posted, this quote from the article is simply not true. It implies that if any employee chooses permanent WFH, you get a pay cut.

If you follow the link [1] from the article, you'll see the following reasons:

* Google supplied an online calculator to see how their possible relocation would affect their pay

* Pay rates are defined by metropolitan statistical areas (MSA)

* Google says "Our compensation packages have always been determined by location, and we always pay at the top of the local market based on where an employee works from,"

So, if you choose to WFH permanently and you commute far enough to live in a different MSA than your office, then you might see a paycut.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/the-great-reboot/pay-cut-googl...

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#112

Post by SlowBall »

googlr29783 wrote: post #76
avnigo wrote: post #53

> Google [...] would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office. Avoiding the office saves employees money — in commuting costs, for example I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again. Employees are compensated on the work they provide during work hours, and only rarely do companies provide compensation to specifically accommodate…

> Google [...] would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office. Sample size of 1 here: Google approved my working remotely in a small town outside a major city at the same compensation as working in the office in that major city. So no pay cut. I think there's a game of telephone going on with the facts in these articles: "could see different changes in pay" -> could lose mon…

Exactly (Google employee here as well). Those articles are completely disingenuous. You could have made the headline “Google will increase the pay of remote workers” and it would be equally true.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#113

Post by Clubber »

ohazi wrote: post #97
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again. They do it because if you won't accept a 20% cut to work out in the sticks then there are plenty of other good people who will. It's got nothing to do with the length of your commute or the cost of unused offices or even the value you provide (as long as that covers your wages). They can do this for exactly the same reason the…

> They do it because if you won't accept a 20% cut to work out in the sticks then there are plenty of other good people who will. So the options are: 1. Convince all of the other good people that they can and should demand more. 2. Convince your bosses that you are indispensable.

3. Quit because you don't want to work for a company that thinks so little of you.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#114

Post by metalliqaz »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #48

> Avoiding the office saves employees money — in commuting costs, for example It saves money for businesses exponentially more. The office space, associated utilities, physical security, cleaning, supplies, insurance, etc. are insane amount of savings. I owned a small "remote business" in the 90's and it allowed me to be competitive with multi-million ventures.

yes but they only make those savings if they can ditch the buildings completely, which most can't.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#115

Post by ThePadawan »

ghaff wrote: post #93
ThePadawan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? It boggles the mind that the biggest companies on Earth are the likes of Instagram instead of a huge company called "Adapt" which takes care of all that between employee and employer as a third party.

I have no personal experience but I have been told that even if you farm a lot of things out there is a certain amount of paperwork (and cost) that you have to handle in-house.

Hm, that's a shame. That seems to me to be just accidental, not essential complexity, too.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#117

Post by ghaff »

ThePadawan wrote: post #115
ghaff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no personal experience but I have been told that even if you farm a lot of things out there is a certain amount of paperwork (and cost) that you have to handle in-house.

Hm, that's a shame. That seems to me to be just accidental, not essential complexity, too.

Well, a lot of it is a patchwork of government rules and regulations. Here's a long post about it from Mitchell at HashiCorp:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17022563

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#118

Post by ThalesX »

joelbluminator wrote: post #104
Sevii wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The focus on programmers as the vanguard of the remote work trend distracts from what could be the real change the outsourcing of white collar work. Why do we need our lawyers, accountants, human resources and other back office employees to be American when Chilean workers will do those jobs for half or a quarter the pay? What outsourcing did to manufacturing jobs, remote work may do to white collar jobs.

Law and accountancy is much harder to outsource than programming. You usually have to be U.S certified so thats pretty much protected.

You have the Ubers and AirBnBs circumventing laws around the world and you think it's hard to optimize for a remote law and accountancy practice? Just have offshore remoters do the bulk of work and have it signed by a certified local lawyer / accountant.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#120

Post by joelbluminator »

ThalesX wrote: post #118
joelbluminator wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law and accountancy is much harder to outsource than programming. You usually have to be U.S certified so thats pretty much protected.

You have the Ubers and AirBnBs circumventing laws around the world and you think it's hard to optimize for a remote law and accountancy practice? Just have offshore remoters do the bulk of work and have it signed by a certified local lawyer / accountant.

It's not impossible I guess, you will need to find people who know U.S law well. If you're talking about accountancy that's pretty complex stuff. You can outsource the grunt work easily (going over Excel sheets, that has been ousourced for decades already) but the substantial work no, I don't think it's that easy.
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