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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#111

Post by eCa »

jpxw wrote: post #62
jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

In reality, the fact that they do the scanning on-device is actually better privacy-wise. But I can see how instinctually it “feels” wrong.

Can you explain how it is better?

If they only scanned icloud I can choose to not use that.

If they scan on my iphone my choice would be to stop using that and get a gphone instead.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#112

Post by slg »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39
jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

The practical difference is that with on-device scanning, the system is just a few bit flips away from scanning every photo on your device, instead of just the ones that are about to be uploaded. With server-side scanning, the separation is clear—what's on Apple's server can be scanned, and what's only on your phone cannot. This all plays so perfectly into my long-time fears about the locked down nature of the iPhone…

There is also an argument that the cloud scanning is a few bit flips away from allowing random Apple employees from looking through all my photos while on device scanning means they have to be specifically looking for certain content. On device scanning is probably preferred if one's fear is someone stealing their nudes, which is one of the more common fears about photo privacy and one that Apple has already shown is a problem for them.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#113

Post by himaraya »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #82
himaraya wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think of it as a form of lobbying.

What's the end-game here? I don't follow.

Idk, avoiding regulation in general? Getting into the government's good graces never hurt anyone

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#114

Post by echelon »

justinzollars wrote: post #21

I have advice for Apple employees. Think Different. You've become Microsoft. I might as well buy a facebook phone.

Part of the reason this might succeed is the Apple fans. They're defending Apple yet again despite the treasons against our privacy being committed.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#115

Post by samstave »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #78
shuckles wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already scans your photos for faces and syncs found faces through iCloud. I’d imagine updating that machine learning model is at least as straightforward as this one.

They're searching for different things though. To my knowledge, before now iOS has never scanned for fingerprints of specific photographs. It would be so darn easy to replace the CSAM database with fingerprints of known tiananmen square photos...

So you have User A - they upload a pic with User A and Peoples B,C,D,E,Z

icloud scans for those faces

finds those faces and ties them to other ID accounts via face - then via fingerprint recognition to a device, and to a location based on IMEI etc.

Apple's platform is literally the foundation for the most dystopian digital tool-set in history...

Once the government is able to crack the apple war chest, everything is fucked.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#116

Post by azinman2 »

nullc wrote: post #88
travoc wrote: post #7

Can someone explain how Apple being coaxed or coerced into searching all of our personal devices for illegal files by federal law enforcement is not an unconstitutional warrantless search?

They aren't being coaxed or coerced. If they were forced-- or even incentivized-- by the government to perform these searches than they'd be subject to the fourth amendment protecting against warrantless searches. Apple is engaging in this activity of their own free will for sake of their own commercial gain and are not being incentivized or coerced by the government in any way. As such, the warrantless search of the…

> Apple is engaging in this activity of their own free will for sake of their own commercial gain

What's the commercial gain?

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#117

Post by perardi »

pehtis wrote: post #95
jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

Yes, thats exactly how i feel. I'd still hate it if my iCloud uploads are scanned but I'm already assuming that anyway. But the fact that my iOS device can potentially report me to any authorities, for whatever reason, is crossing a line that makes it impossible to ever own an iPhone again. I bought my first one in 2007 so I'm not saying this lightly.. Does anybody know if this policy will extend to macOS too?

I think you’re going to have to go to a flip phone, then.

Not to be, uh, flippant. Because this feels like a rather obvious slippery slope that Google will be compelled to slide down as well.

Feels like the only way to avoid such a thing would be dumb phone + Linux laptop/desktop.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#118

Post by mr_toad »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #72
Hackbraten wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neither. I used to trust them to do the right thing for their customers but not anymore.

I don't understand what they are thinking. This project is probably going to cost millions, they won't catch any pedophiles, they will only scare them so they don't use Apple devices. Nobody asked them to do it. This is none of their business. It can only creates new vulnerabilities, privacy issues and general annoyance.

> This project is probably going to cost millions, they won't catch any pedophiles, they will only scare them so they don't use Apple devices.

Mission accomplished? They can argue that encrypted iPhones aren’t being abused by pedophiles, and they can argue that alternative App Stores will be avenues for illegal material.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#119

Post by throaway46546 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39
jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

The practical difference is that with on-device scanning, the system is just a few bit flips away from scanning every photo on your device, instead of just the ones that are about to be uploaded. With server-side scanning, the separation is clear—what's on Apple's server can be scanned, and what's only on your phone cannot. This all plays so perfectly into my long-time fears about the locked down nature of the iPhone…

I agree. Our phones tend to hold all of our most intimate data. Violating them is akin to violating our homes. It would be nice if the laws saw it this way.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#120

Post by [deleted] »

nottorp wrote: post #9
jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

That is how you should look at it. They have no business scanning the phones for anything, period. I'll refer you to the poem beginning with "First they came for the Jews...".

[deleted]
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