I have the vaccine and still think this is absurd and a slippery slope. If you havent noticed, society tends to run with things they can get away with to the most extreme direction.
NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
111–120 of 1001 posts
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great reply, thank you. I don't want to get into a long argument, but a lot of what you say hinges on that 40% number. I'd like to know what that refers to. My reply to that 40% number: I thought that vaccines made you something like 20x less likely to end up in the hospital from coronavirus (widely cited as 95% protective.) And that unvaccinated people spread at 5x the rate of the vaccinated ones. https://www.nature…
There was some CDC data published recently on breakthrough infections in the US (I don't have a better site--saw it somewhere on Apple New+). It worked out to 4 COVID hospitalizations or deaths per 100k. For comparison, that's about twice the US death rate due to flu in 2019, and about 1/40th the US death rate due to COVID before vaccinations were available (and before the delta variant was in the US). That's about 1…
Aren't you comparing Delta numbers for vaccine and pre-Delta numbers for no-vaccine then? So really you'd expect the difference to be even greater than that.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#113You people can argue all you want. I voted with my feet and I not only left New York City, I left the U.S.S.A . Even a blind man could see whats coming next!
Where’d you go?
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…
> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.
> The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system.
This is clearly not the goal -- there have been no additions to hospital capacity since the pandemic started in earnest 17 months ago.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#115Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
It's simple. If you're vaccinated you shouldn't care whether other people in the restaurant are. That's the point of vaccination after all. And if you're not vaccinated obviously you're not going to be in favor of this new mandate. The people who support policies like these are vaccin efficacy denialists, petty tyrants, and doomers of various sorts. And there are good reasons to not want to live in a "papers please"…
That's not the point of vaccination.
A group of people in a room all vaccinated is safer than a group of people half vaccinated.
The vaccine is not a boolean on off switch, it's a percentage wise improvement over nothing, and it compounds when those around are also vaccinated.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#116You people can argue all you want. I voted with my feet and I not only left New York City, I left the U.S.S.A . Even a blind man could see whats coming next!
Countries such as Italy and France have instituted this policy as a national level.
Many countries have/had lockdown policies far more strict than the strictest locale in the US.
I do not like the government placing the burden of enforcement on businesses. It will lead to a backlash from the anti-vax crowd, waste of employee resources, and lax oversight will give a false sense of security.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you drawing a comparison between requiring vaccinations (with 30+ year safety records) against measles and polio, for children to attend public school, with requiring vaccinations (with no long-term safety data whatsoever) against Covid for people to go to public establishments? Did you ever need proof of a polio vaccine to get into Equinox?
Hi! Thanks for asking! I very much am drawing that comparison, because there is literally no--and I mean that, literally no --evidence from a credible source to suggest that the possibility exists in terms of actual pathways to a long-term problem. Should that evidence be forthcoming from sources with a credible tether to reality, I will re-evaluate my position, but unlike so many of the fearful types who insist one…
So do you consider VAERS to have a credible tether to reality?
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#118Surely this is a violation of civil rights law. The law is going to have a disparate impact on minority groups since there is a difference in vaccination rates between different racial groups. The law doesn't seem narrowly scoped to achieve a specific compelling government interest. People from the government seem to be claiming this is being used to incentivise vaccine uptake. If the government made the claim that t…
Wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
this is not enforcing vaccination it is denying services based on vaccination status. i think there is a distinction. like what if a state decided to make the franchise dependent on whether your were vaccinated or not in order to 'encourage' people to vaccinate similar to how they are trying to deny people access to indoor dining in order to 'encourage' people to vaccinate. i'm sure that would be challenged under the civil rights act. the key thing here is that if they wanted to increase vaccination rates it could be done in a more direct and narrow way like enforcing people to get vaccinated rather than doing it indirectly.
also, this case was not about the whether it was a breach of the civil rights act which is what i contend this law violates. in fact, the civil rights act was established after this case so it couldn't possibly have factored into the decision.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#119Anyone who thinks that government and Big Tech are going to setup a platform just for this one disease and just for the duration of the pandemic are simply not fit to vote in a free country. This is the beginnings of a social credit system, à la China/Gattaca.
Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings
#120To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…
> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision.
Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?