Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

timharford.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 282 posts

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#111

Post by thanhhaimai »

arthurcolle wrote: post #104
rtkwe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they mean performance wise. Excel could have larger hard limits but handle complex sheets worse.

Google Sheets is an unusable dumpster fire. I just tried to import a 3 million row CSV yesterday and it wasn't able to do it. INDEX/MATCH don't even work properly! Basically unusable unless you need it for scheduling parties or whatever people use Airtable for.

Have you considered using a different tool for the job? Processing 3 millions rows of CVS sounds like a task that is more fitting for a small script than Excel/Google Sheet.

Google Sheet excels at many other tasks, but it's not a replacement for specialized tool (and it should not).

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#112

Post by arthurcolle »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #84
echelon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, but this entirely misses the point of the article. It's not calling for the end of spreadsheets -- it's stating that there's an unspoken problem that demands our attention. Spreadsheets aren't 100% reliable for use cases where you need to collaborate and share immutable health records. Especially during a time of global emergency when tensions are heightened. Spreadsheets don't impose validation, sche…

It would be hard, but I think a new kind of spreadsheet that was easier to validate, easily impose a schema and constraints and helps us identify human errors would be helpful. I bet excel has some excellent features around this, but they are not front and center in the UI.

> easier to validate, easily impose a schema and constraints and helps us identify human errors would be helpful.

yeah, it's called IF

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#113

Post by arthurcolle »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #111
arthurcolle wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Sheets is an unusable dumpster fire. I just tried to import a 3 million row CSV yesterday and it wasn't able to do it. INDEX/MATCH don't even work properly! Basically unusable unless you need it for scheduling parties or whatever people use Airtable for.

Have you considered using a different tool for the job? Processing 3 millions rows of CVS sounds like a task that is more fitting for a small script than Excel/Google Sheet. Google Sheet excels at many other tasks, but it's not a replacement for specialized tool (and it should not).

Yes of course, I originally generated the file using Pandas but it's always a pain in the ass to remember the magical incantations to make pretty 2D graphs that aren't fugly. That being said, I have a knack for making great 3D graphs that are awesome! In any case, it's hard when my employer doesn't just gimme that juicy Excel subscription because cost-cutting and efficiencies.

In the end I put on my robe and wizard hat and used matplotlib. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#115

Post by vxNsr »

gizmo686 wrote: post #68
vxNsr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is more than just a hammer it’s the fork that is in every single drawer of every single company/org in the world. It’s not about every problem looking like a nail, it’s that, nobody had to pay for this fork, somehow everyone has it and it’s such a great fork that it can do 90% of the problems you throw at it. Yea sure some problems would be better solved with specialized tools, (eg knife, spoon, etc) but those…

> nobody had to pay for this fork Actually, everyone had to pay for that fork. Excel is a paid product, and isn't even included in the cost of Windows. It is, however, bundled with MS Office, which includes Word, which is even more of a must have at almost every single company/org.

I know very few people who have paid for excel specifically. everyone pays for MS office, albeit because it includes excel, but in an workplace setting the main thing you're paying for is outlook/exchange the fact that word/excel/powerpoint are bundled is a plus.

The main point I'm making is that no one has to go to their manager and justify paying for it. It's already bought and paid for, and because of its ubiquity most people have a pretty good idea of how to use it.

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#116

Post by lazide »

gizmo686 wrote: post #68
vxNsr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is more than just a hammer it’s the fork that is in every single drawer of every single company/org in the world. It’s not about every problem looking like a nail, it’s that, nobody had to pay for this fork, somehow everyone has it and it’s such a great fork that it can do 90% of the problems you throw at it. Yea sure some problems would be better solved with specialized tools, (eg knife, spoon, etc) but those…

> nobody had to pay for this fork Actually, everyone had to pay for that fork. Excel is a paid product, and isn't even included in the cost of Windows. It is, however, bundled with MS Office, which includes Word, which is even more of a must have at almost every single company/org.

While technically true, the office coffee costs more usually. It is generally just there, and no one usually is thinking of the costs, because it’s too small to care about.

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#117

Post by cratermoon »

People do multi-million dollar deals with Excel spreadsheets. I know personally of one deal involving multiple multi-national petrochemical companies, pipelines, and refineries in the US. The whole deal was done on a spreadsheet, the rest of the legal paperwork was just formalities.

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#118

Post by navneetloiwal »

rexreed wrote: post #37

* The Utility of Spreadsheets No single application has been as widely adopted by as wide a number of people for such a wide range of uses as the spreadsheet. Love them or hate them, but the spreadsheet metaphor is at once highly useful, highly adaptable, and highly usable requiring minimal support to extract needed value. The spreadsheet, with all its questionable glory, is here to stay. From the first Visicalc to E…

This! As programmers, it is easy to list N reasons why spreadsheets suck and deserve to die. But the reality is that it is the most ubiquitous business software and the non-tech/business users would rather be in a spreadsheet than anywhere else. Companies run on spreadsheets, even if they have the best "data stack" and tools. Because few, if any, software can beat the

* flexibility (throw data anywhere and link it to each other, make edits, write notes),

* power (formulas, etc), and

* familiarity (the most underrated factor) of spreadsheets.

Nothing else allows the non-tech user to feel empowered like spreadsheets do.

Spreadsheet evolution has been slow though. Google Sheets added cloud + collaboration 10 years ago. We (https://coefficient.io) are adding the layer of connectivity to sheets so they can remain in sync with the actual sources of data (Cloud apps like Salesforce, DBs, BI tools, etc) so sheets actually become "live" (even though they have been in the cloud for a while) and to reduce manual work and increase trust/accuracy. There is so much more that can be done to leverage this largest software platform that is out there.

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#119

Post by sheetjs »

arcturus17 wrote: post #109
ttul wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I strongly prefer working with GSheets to Excel. It handles large sheets better and you never worry about the app crashing and taking your precious work along with it.

And controversial as this may be, JavaScript.

Newer versions of Excel have native JavaScript support https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/dev/add-ins/referenc...

Re: The Tyranny of Spreadsheets

#120

Post by coolaliasbro »

navneetloiwal wrote: post #118
rexreed wrote: post #37

* The Utility of Spreadsheets No single application has been as widely adopted by as wide a number of people for such a wide range of uses as the spreadsheet. Love them or hate them, but the spreadsheet metaphor is at once highly useful, highly adaptable, and highly usable requiring minimal support to extract needed value. The spreadsheet, with all its questionable glory, is here to stay. From the first Visicalc to E…

This! As programmers, it is easy to list N reasons why spreadsheets suck and deserve to die. But the reality is that it is the most ubiquitous business software and the non-tech/business users would rather be in a spreadsheet than anywhere else. Companies run on spreadsheets, even if they have the best "data stack" and tools. Because few, if any, software can beat the * flexibility (throw data anywhere and link it to…

> Nothing else allows the non-tech user to feel empowered like spreadsheets do.

I'd say it allows the same for technical users as well since it helps bridge communication/knowledge gaps and move things along. It's typically not the solution but often plays a critical supporting role.

Post reply on HN