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Why I will never pursue cheating again

behind-the-enemy-lines.blogspot.com

111–120 of 506 posts

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#111
post #65

One of the problems here (which I've heard is common to most universities) is the use of student evaluations to evaluate professors. That creates a very unfortunate incentive for profs to try to please their students. Not all students value the best education; some just want a high grade for as little work as possible. Their evaluations are not going to be in line with the goals of the university. By using them as pa…

At my previous employer (a private college), we had a consulting group come and and discuss strategic planning.

I asked them whether we could justify improving academic programs using ROI. The lead consultant said, "Nowadays, it's all about the amenities," and that we should build a swimming pool.

I think higher ed really is about pleasing the students, parents and alumni, and keeping the money flowing, unfortunately. Bureaucracies just perpetuate themselves.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#112

This professor is a huge part of the problem. He's a tenured professor saying "caring about cheating is counter productive", which to me says "I would rather have an easy life where I don't have to work hard than to protect the reputation of the institution I work for and ensure that students that graduate have learned something along the way". He complains he had to work almost 44 hours (2 hours * 22 cheaters) and r…

You have to put this into perspective. It's easy to condemn someone as "a lazy coward" if he was the exception in an environment where most professors "work hard to protect the reputation of the institution they work for" and "ensure that students that graduate have learned something along the way". From the tone and from personal experience, I'd guess he has been the exception - in the other direction. Seasoned prof…

There are at least two aspects of 'personal well being' to consider here.

One is 'income', the other is 'fulfilling societies expectations'. Nobody want's to be seen as being unethical or not fulfilling their duty. By automatically explaining away their actions and taking a fatalistic viewpoint you give away one of these two pressures, and probably the greater of the two.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#113
post #81

I did not cheat in school. I wanted to prove things to myself and to learn. However the basic premise of opposition to cheating here is incorrect: "habitual plagiarism ... can have very serious consequences in their professional life" This is something academics believe because it justifies their policies, but it isn't true, at least in entrepreneurship. Those who can "cheat" without violating the trust of those who…

I disagree with your conclusion. Cheating is about taking the easy way, which rarely works in the real world, unless you are comfortable riding (and perhaps crossing) the legal/ethical boundaries we, as a society, have decided on.

I would never hire someone for my startup who came to me and said, "I cheated through college, so I know how to be cutthroat in business." If you don't have the personal integrity to manage yourself, why would I ever think you would manage something of mine?

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#114
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those are ethnic origins.

Compared to the others listed, it's out of place - all Greeks originate from Greece - where do all Jewish people originate from? (and as much as that sounds like the start of a joke, it's not)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#115
post #15

I don't know what it is with you US Americans and "cheating"... but it seems to be a very touchy subject in your culture, almost like violating someone's honors. I never understood that.

Just out of curiosity, where are you from and how is cheating regarded there?

I am Austrian and studied in Austria. Cheating is not really considered special or extra-ordinary in any way here.

Pupils in school would try it, also students later on might try to... generally it is the duty of the teacher or professor to keep students from cheating here and 95% of the time they are very successful at it. The remaining 5% are considered fair game by the students.

Most tests (as in over 90%) do not allow you to use books or any other material; sometimes students would try to hide notes or get an answer from a fellow student but ultimately with the teacher watching and the situation in the class room being really quiet, in most cases there is hardly anything you can really do or find out anyway but maybe you can get one or two hints tops.

Also, most exams (at least where I studied) did not have multiple choice tests instead you would have to write a proper answer and apply knowledge. So at best someone could whisper a clue or hint you in the right direction

In case you got caught talking/cheating you might get one or two warnings and then your test is taken away from you and maybe also from the person you were talking to, depending on course and professor.

The difference for me is: amongst students, it is not a "crime" here.. you are trying to help your fellow colleagues mostly "against" the teacher and while still covering your own ass. It would be considered rather offending NOT to help on purpose when you have the chance to.

Another difference might be: I did not have to pay upwards of 100k to get a decent education. So maybe studying is more a "commodity" here in Euroland.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#116
In grad school, a couple of times I proctored exams for my major professor. Every time I caught students cheating (copying off of note sheets or old exams from other students), collected the "cheat sheets" and explained the situation to my major professor. Not once were those pursued and I think all the students passed the classes. Pretty frustrating.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#117

Why not have the grade of papers be multiplied by the inverse of the plagiarism score? For example, your first author would get a maximum of a 3% grade on his paper. Of course there are false positives to think of as well, but this would force the authors into more and more original content. The very first assignment I did in college was my own, some code I wrote for a programming class. I turned it in, but my friend…

I'd really rather not have my grade depend on a completely non-transparent tool that I have completely no access to nor can refute its accusations.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#118

"One interesting observation: Almost all cheating happened within ethnic lines. Koreans copy from Koreans. Indians from Indians. Greeks from Greeks. Jews from Jews. Chinese from Chinese." ...or maybe it's just that people copy from their friends?

And their friends are generally within ethnic lines. In engineering school right now. You would have to be blind, or incredibly naive to not see that a majority (I cannot say how great) have their closest ring of friends from the same ethnic backgrounds.

Especially the Koreans. Most tight-knit group I know.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#119
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A math majors can just copy the homework. 90% of it is mechanical, and 10% requires a "twist". You can copy the "twist", and the rest is easy. Or copy it all (in a slightly different format), and just claim that it's the same because it's ... well, the same. Unless you both make a mistake. But it's even easier than copying essays. Still, the exam will be a problem. But if lots of students cheat, the lecturers will st…

I don't believe that 90% of majors copy homework. I can say I never saw any cheating at all on 400 level math homework at my university. I graded assignments for Number Theory for several semesters, and I can say I didn't see any cheating there either. Generally the homework is just meant to give you a good bit of practice, there is no way to pass the class without passing the exams.

There are varying degrees of cheating. There is flat out copying, which this article addresses, and then there are the lesser degrees of cheating.

Having experienced upper, lower, and graduate level courses in math and engineering (as well as taught at the lower level) I can honestly say that the amount of people that directly copy another student's assignments is much higher than most people think. This type of cheating tapers off as you enter the higher levels. On the other hand, I find that the "helping another student out" or "group study" type of cheating probably occurs with a 75%+ frequency among all levels of academics.

The first type (plagiarism) is definitely cheating while the second type (group think) is most likely classified as cheating but never acted against. The fact that you didn't see any cheating in your Number Theory course could simply be due to the fact that the second type of cheating is much more difficult to spot unless you are intimately familiar with the subject material and solution methods.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#120
post #25

Holy crap. They let so many people get away with copy-paste assignments, and they call themselves a postsecondary institution? That's fucking horrific. Where I'm from, a single sentence similar to one of your sources is marks deducted. A paragraph puts you on academic probation. Anything bigger is a bus-ticket home.

Where I'm from, a single sentence similar to one of your sources is marks deducted

Sounds like the purpose of the class is to teach people to use a thesaurus.

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