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How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

learning-to-see.co.uk

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Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#111

> But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills. This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school. Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and…

> That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills.

this is just not true. blocked practice (i.e. practicing the same task repeatedly) is generally worse for long-term retention than mixed practice strategies where you vary the practice conditions or interleave different tasks in practice

e.g. if you go through 100 problems of 2 digit multiplication, you will probably have worse retention than if you went through 10 of those problems, then 10 division problems, then 5 word problems, then 10 3 digit multiplication problems, and so on, equating practice time

drilling _feels_ like a really effective way to learn because you do better at it and quickly develop muscle memory or mental shortcuts, but your performance on practice tasks is really not a good signal of your actual learning or retention.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275355435_Learning_...

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#112
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are relatively correct. The 10k "rule" and other general guidelines are just that --- guidelines for something that often bucks guidelines and is better for it. 3 things an artist make: 1. Finishing and finishing often. You should not be making the same thing all the time, but you should be consciously iterating in any direction you like as long as you are still finishing. Great painters, writers, musicians, are…

I'd somewhat change #1 to "starting and starting often." I see far, far too many art students fall into the trap of wasting hours finishing work when they'd be better off starting more pieces.

I think “finishing often” means precisely that students can’t be spending too long finishing work. They have to stop and move on ASAP so they can finish again. I think there’s importance in finishing vs starting; it’s easy for creatives to get stuck starting a project and never learning how to complete.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#113

> But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills. This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school. Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and…

I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by people with power over you (eg. parents), having your worth judged based on your ability to solve problems forced upon you, and once you learn a skill your parents find a new weakness to torment you with, is traumatic.

That's more of a reflection on the people doing the teaching than the style of teaching itself I think. This is purely anecdotal but I absolutely hated most of my pre-university education as it felt like jumping through completely meaningless hoops. I'll still happily practice scales or musical fragments by rote on my guitar for hours on end though, and this is a very effective method for me. It took me a long time to figure out I actually love learning, it's just that there's a lot more to learning than the industrial-style process that goes on in the average British comprehensive.

If a person's approach to educating their kids is coercive ("jump through our hoops or you'll be working at McDonalds your entire life") or downright abusive ("you're a worthless child to us if you don't meet this grade") then the results can be catastrophic. For every success story, this kind of maltreatment will produce many people who give up on learning altogether or drive themselves headfirst into mental illness. I definitely think history will judge this period as a bit of a dark age in education, the fact that people who've long retired still report exam nightmares says a lot about the completely arbitrary and needless pressure we put our children under.

In my experience being "well-spoken" (ie having an accent that's fairly close to RP) and being quick at picking things up has served me far better than any qualifications I have, both in the tech industry and out of it.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#115
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those kinds of kids were common 10, 20, 50, 100, and more years ago.

Now they are ubiquitous. Downplaying it to 'dumb ones' is not helpful when they can solve polynomials without much trouble but are getting burned on concepts that should have been drilled down properly in middle school.

> Now they are ubiquitous

They were saying that back in the day as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Johnny_Can%27t_Add

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#116

> But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills. This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school. Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and…

Math teaching has never been successful. Nobody knows why we do it. The parents all learned it the old way, meaning that they got good test scores but did not retain any useful facility with math beyond their obligatory high school and college courses. A few people who managed to carry math to the level of being an art, like painting, probably can't tell you how or why that happened.

My kids did lots and lots of drill. But no proofs.

I struggled with math until we started to do proofs. Then it came alive for me. I loved sets. My school also used a series of textbooks in which some of the problems had no answer, and you were supposed to write "no answer." Those problems were a special rare treat that motivated me to do all of the problems.

For most kids and their parents, math functions as some sort of diligence / obedience / IQ training that they hope will get them into a better college and job before it is forgotten.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, it's one of the most effective way to learn vocabulary (Nation, 2001). I find it very sad that bad methods like Remembering the Kanji are hugely popular when they are in fact a waste of time. The amount of bad content on the internet is staggering. I think the biggest issue is that most people lost the willingness to put efforts in learning, and want everything immediately. Are you talking about this book?…

> I can't imagine learning Chinese characters without any form of mnemonics. Username checks out :). Have you learned Chinese? I'm not convinced that my method is the best by a long shot, but I don't use mnemonics. I've tried memorizing other things with tricks like the memory palace, and either I don't know how to do it or my brain is busted, but I've never been able to create a "palace" much less store information…

>Have you learned Chinese?

Yes, and still am. Not really active anymore since I'm busy with other things. I don't read much, but I can read a book, albeit slow and with much difficulty. Writing I do even less, and handwriting I never really did apart from tests and filling in forms. Speaking and listening I do every day. After a while I just decided to not focus really much on handwriting because it easily takes the most effort for something I actually barely use.

I've played a bit with memory palaces for fun and found them to be effective, but really not for Chinese Characters. I mostly used my own flashcards with Anki. I used pictures and tone colored characters to help. That worked fine, but making the flashcards also took a lot of time so it wasn't really perfect either. Having many synonyms also complicates the whole ordeal. But overall spaced repetition really, really helps with managing lots of vocabulary. You can have a deck of several thousands of words without too many issues. If you find words hard to remember it's also OK to just delete them (Anki also helps with this by automatically labeling cards you often fail as leech).

The mnemonics I use are the "build in" ones in the characters, maybe you already do this by yourself and actively learning them won't change too much. Nearly all characters have some meaning and/or pronunciation component hidden in them which can help you remembering them, or guessing their meaning or sound when you first encounter them.

I don't really think about radicals since those are just arbitrarily chosen components used only for paper dictionaries (and who wants to use those in the age of smartphones...). Some random examples of interesting components: 疒, is a character that is not used anymore (I think) but it means disease and if any character has this component you can be very sure it's some kind of disease.

月 is a tricky one. It's moon and it often really doesn't make sense in words until you know that 肉 is often corrupted into 月. The 月 in 脑 doesn't mean moon but meat/flesh.

Some characters change depending on where they appear as components: 水/氵, 人/亻.

I like to use the Outlier Linguistic Dictionary on Pleco for looking up how characters are build up and see if it can help me remembering the character. I find little stories help me to remember words/characters. A character I forgot how to write and just looked up: 虹 (rainbow). It' made of the component snake/insect/worm because the ancient Chinese thought it looked like a snake in the sky. 工 is there for sound because gong/hong sound similar. Or 取 (take/get/fetch), it's literally a hand taking an ear.

I don't think mnemonics is the One Easy Trick that will make your routine 10x more efficient, but depending on how you learn now it could really boost your efficiency. If you're not using any form of spaced repetition yet I think that really could be it.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#118
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The science is wrong because I disagree" - ipaddr

I'm not seeing any research linked. It will have to be pretty convincingly done too because we've seen a metric ship load of issues in psych research of late. I don't have an opinion on the issue at hand. "Because the science says" With nothing in support makes me really suspicious. It really starts looking like "Because $authority says so you may not question" Which is the opposite of what scientific inquiry is mean…

Last page contains references for scientific studies http://pdf.retrievalpractice.org/InterleavingGuide.pdf

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#119

The premise of Wooden's methods is that the players already have a lot of experience playing basketball. Many many games by the time they got to UCLA. Informal and formal. And that's my caveat for this as advice on painting. If a person doesn't already have a history of painting, by which I mean starting and completing paintings as paintings, no amount of drill is going turn them into a painter. The willingness to ex…

The will to do the drill will bring the willingness to execute.

I am not a painter but I followed a pure drill approach to teach html/css/javascript to 12 of my operations/monitoring team members (11 males 1 female, aged 24-27) who lost their job during start of Covid.

None of them had any background in programming or engineering, 3 of them dropped out after two weeks.

All those who went through the drill got jobs as developers. 7 as react developers, 1 test automation and 1 script developer.

All I did was ensure the drill and motivate them not to give up. They were all from very poor families so the motivation part was easy - hope of a better life at the end of drill.

The mantra is, don’t fool yourself, type it, clock the hours and don’t miss the meeting.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#120
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are relatively correct. The 10k "rule" and other general guidelines are just that --- guidelines for something that often bucks guidelines and is better for it. 3 things an artist make: 1. Finishing and finishing often. You should not be making the same thing all the time, but you should be consciously iterating in any direction you like as long as you are still finishing. Great painters, writers, musicians, are…

I'd somewhat change #1 to "starting and starting often." I see far, far too many art students fall into the trap of wasting hours finishing work when they'd be better off starting more pieces.

How much gets finished is a matter of commitment to working more than a matter of ambition.

The wasted hours are the hours that they are not working on the thing. One hundred hours is only a bit more than four days...and if you use both hands, barely more than two.

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