Why My Father Hated India • Hacker News Board

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#111

Post by nate_meurer » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 1:14 AM UTC

spiffworks wrote: post #90

deepGem wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. However, for Pakistan and it's people, hatred towards India is a way of life. That's their inspiration, that's what they live up to. They possibly don't have any economic, social or technical goals to look up to. In such a scenario they naturally turns to religion and religious leaders feed this hatred mantra. Hence hatred becomes their living breath. Of course, this is all hearsay and I haven't…

I am 4 short of 500 karma, so I can't give you a downvote - instead, I make this comment. I'm an Indian, and I find it very hard to believe that an entire nation unequivocally hates another country. Firstly, there are plenty of educated, curious and free-thinking Pakistanis who bear no such hatred toward India - just read the blogs in the Dawn website. Second, among those who aren't educated nearly well enough, I ima…

You seem to be disagreeing with Taseer's article, yet you give no concrete reasons or evidence -- only anecdotes. Do you also find it very hard to believe that Pakistan's hugely wasteful military is an artefact of its drummed-up animosity toward India?

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#112

Post by anxrn » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 3:53 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #95

I'm torn about this. India is a much more pluralistic society, and Pakistan is a failed state. But one of the points made early on in the article makes it seem as if the Partition was entirely Pakistan's idea, and the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people who died were all innocent Hindus being slaughtered at the hands of murderous Muslims. "But violence erupted, and it quickly became clear that in the new home…

You're right about the history of Partition.

This is roughly what happened. The British cabinet committee had originally proposed a 3-tier federation: with the center at the top, a provincial grouping of states in the middle, and states at the bottom. There were 3 'groups': A: Hindu-majority areas of the North, West and South B: Muslim-majority areas of the North-West, C: Bengal and Assam. Jinnah and the communists had agreed to this plan, Nehru wanted to defer the decision to the Constituent Assembly. Jinnah saw this as a 'betrayal' and withdrew his support. Eventually, when this plan seemed in jeopardy, the cabinet committee proposed Partition. Jinnah accepted, Nehru disagreed. And then 'Direct Action Day' and riots happened. No looking back after that.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#113

Post by billswift » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 4:49 AM UTC

known wrote: post #76

carbocation wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some empirical measure of "the degree to which someone should actually be trusted," and if so, are the racially diverse societies less trustful than they should be, or are the racially homogeneous societies moreso than they should be?

I believe Trust but verify is the best alternative.

I think a better way of putting it is "Trust, but protect yourself in case you are wrong". As I wrote elsewhere, I think saying that you "absolutely trust" someone (anyone) is one of the most arrogant things you can say; you are not only saying you trust that person, you are also saying you don't believe you could be mistaken. Believe me, there is always room for a person to make mistakes.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#114

Post by known » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 5:50 AM UTC

ajays wrote: post #99

known wrote: post #42

During Indo-Pak partition in 1947 the agreement is that all Muslim majority regions should be merged with Pakistan and all Hindu majority regions should be merged with India. India betrayed by annexing Muslim majority Kashmir and Hyderabad. UNSC passed multiple resolutions since 1948 advising India, Pakistan & China to give Independence to Kashmir, Tibet & Aksai Chin. Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the Ind…

"Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the India." LOL. Nice try. It is Pakistan who is obsessed with Kashmir. The founder of Pakistan, M A Jinnah, wanted to be buried in Kashmir. Every time there's talk of peace between India and Pakistan, the Pakistani government brings up Kashmir. As far as I know, the only "burning" issues about Kashmir that the rest of India has are: 1. Why aren't there more airline flights…

Go and ask UNSC https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/United_Nation...

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#115

Post by digamber_kamat » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 10:45 AM UTC

known wrote: post #62

dimmuborgir wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a known troll who puts baseless comments on every India related posts. India didn't betray Kashmir. The king of Kashmir (Hari Singh) was a Hindu and wanted Kashmir to be an independent country. But Pakistan wanted Kashmir, so it funded insurgents against Kashmir. When the Kashmir king couldn't face them, he sought India's military help. India agreed on the condition that Kashmir should be annexed to India. The…

You're trying to fabricate the truth. When the Kashmir king couldn't face them, he sought India's military help is not true. Maharaja appealed to Lord Mountbatten and not to India. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kashmir#Year_... In the last days of 1948, a ceasefire was agreed under UN auspices, but since the plebiscite demanded by the UN was never conducted , relations between India and Pakistan sour…

Hyderabad was always a Hindu majority state if you are ignorant of history. It was Nijam who wanted to annex himself to Pakistan. Thanks to Sardar Patel we reduced another University of Terrorism.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#116

Post by digamber_kamat » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 10:47 AM UTC

known wrote: post #62

dimmuborgir wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a known troll who puts baseless comments on every India related posts. India didn't betray Kashmir. The king of Kashmir (Hari Singh) was a Hindu and wanted Kashmir to be an independent country. But Pakistan wanted Kashmir, so it funded insurgents against Kashmir. When the Kashmir king couldn't face them, he sought India's military help. India agreed on the condition that Kashmir should be annexed to India. The…

You're trying to fabricate the truth. When the Kashmir king couldn't face them, he sought India's military help is not true. Maharaja appealed to Lord Mountbatten and not to India. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kashmir#Year_... In the last days of 1948, a ceasefire was agreed under UN auspices, but since the plebiscite demanded by the UN was never conducted , relations between India and Pakistan sour…

Need not go very far, just look into this history textbooks of pakistani schools and you will realize that Pakistan has created an absolutely fake history for itself. Where they glorify Ghori, Mughals while pictrize Ashoka as villain and so on.

Pakistan is unable to live with the fact that both it's land people were once upon a time pretty much hindu.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#117

Post by ajuc » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 2:33 PM UTC

idiopathic wrote: post #108

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to make sure I'm clear on this: I'm not saying that different people don't have a legitimate reason to be upset. If you're living in a former communist state in shitty conditions because the Soviets destroyed your country, sure. If you're living in poverty in some third-world country because your elected leaders like playing the "big man" in politics and killed all your family? Sure. There are lots of great reas…

I do not agree with you, but regardless, the example you gave - South Africa - proves the point of the person you were replying to, i.e. they "won", so it is easier for them to forget. Not to take anything away from the extraordinary sacrifices of the native South Africans, but at the end of the day, they got to rule their land again, while the native Americans - and the Palestinian - never got to. PS this is separat…

I'm Polish, and this is very true. People here, especially old one, feel like victims of history, and are holding grudge.

Young people just go on, catching the chances we eventually have, not thinking too much about history. For the generations that had bad luck to live under German or Soviet occupation during WW2, and then in communism, they still holds grudge (and I understand them).

We even have great poetry about this: Czesław Miłosz "The Envoy of Mr. Cogito"

"...and do not forgive truly it is not in your power to forgive in the name of those betrayed at dawn beware however of unnecessary pride ..."

It's easy to forgive, when you're the winner. For people that had to live as victims for long time, when they see nobody cares anymore, it's hard.

This subject is currently highly dividing point of public debat here - two greatests parlament parties are defining their difference using this division.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#118

Post by alnayyir » Mon, Jul 18, 2011, 5:11 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #60

One of the things that consistently puzzle me is how different cultures handle change. Over the past 150 years, the world has seen all kinds of terrible wars, killing hundreds of millions of people and causing all sorts of hatred and ill will. Some of these cultures get up, dust themselves off, and go on -- sometimes achieving greatness. Other cultures, sometimes with far less injustice done (if you can measure these…

Nihilism by definition would actually eliminate these issues because they would leave the subjects with nothing to fight over.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Please stop blaming the world's problems on amorphous and complicated concepts that you only vaguely remember from PHIL101.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#119

Post by spiffworks » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 1:25 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #111

spiffworks wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 4 short of 500 karma, so I can't give you a downvote - instead, I make this comment. I'm an Indian, and I find it very hard to believe that an entire nation unequivocally hates another country. Firstly, there are plenty of educated, curious and free-thinking Pakistanis who bear no such hatred toward India - just read the blogs in the Dawn website. Second, among those who aren't educated nearly well enough, I ima…

You seem to be disagreeing with Taseer's article, yet you give no concrete reasons or evidence -- only anecdotes. Do you also find it very hard to believe that Pakistan's hugely wasteful military is an artefact of its drummed-up animosity toward India?

I don't disagree with the article per se, I disagree with this method people seem to have of painting a large and diverse country with a single brush. I am entirely ignorant of Pakistan's inner workings, so I don't have an opinion on the article itself, other than noticing the obvious logical flaw and the fact that this article and its discussion are entirely inappropriate for HN.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#120

Post by known » Wed, Jul 20, 2011, 3:10 PM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #109

known wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Trust but verify is the best alternative.

I don't quite see how this is different from "say you trust, but act as if you don't", aka "don't trust, but lie about it".

Trust but verify = Make an informed decision