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Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 245 posts

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#111

Again, this doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense without location data. I'm voting with my salary adjusted to San Francisco levels by using the following adjustment tool: http://www.bestplaces.net/col/ I'd recommend that people do the same so we can remove a substantial source of noise from this poll and actually get a meaningful distribution.

Wow. It says Palo Alto, CA is 71% MORE expensive than NYC. That result alone left me feeling that this data is not what I am looking for. I have lived in both places and disagree. I am curious about what "NYC" means to this site.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#114
post #21

Quite interesting. In Germany or Europe very very few programmers would make more than 100k USD (around 70k EUR) unless he is in some position where he leads a team or oversees bigger projects. Then i see how cheap cars and computer hardware etc is in the US and i really start to wonder where this massive difference comes from. US engineers seem to earn way more and generally pay much less for many things. Apple hard…

I am in Germany, and 70k EUR seems average for someone with experience and/or specialist skills. (Of course less experienced or "motivated" developers will be on a bit less than that). 70k would be low for anyone in a leadership role. Of course half of that gets taxed away, so I wouldn't really compare it to 100k USD.

Can you, without giving away too much information, tell me what kind of market you're talking about (i.e. are you thinking of embedded, financial, whatever)?

I'm from Germany as well with (depending on skill) 5-10 years experience and your numbers just don't match mine. Maybe you just confirmed once more that I fail to negotiate, but.. by a large margin.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#115
post #21

Quite interesting. In Germany or Europe very very few programmers would make more than 100k USD (around 70k EUR) unless he is in some position where he leads a team or oversees bigger projects. Then i see how cheap cars and computer hardware etc is in the US and i really start to wonder where this massive difference comes from. US engineers seem to earn way more and generally pay much less for many things. Apple hard…

This is exactly why I moved from Germany to the US. I was tired of being on the end of the salary bell curve at international conferences. Higher salary and lower taxes mean that my disposable post-tax income is now 3.5 times what it was in Germany. And I am not even in the Bay Area yet!

From my point of view, the situation for software developers is particularly bleak though. You don't have to move to the United States to do much better. Going to Switzerland or Luxembourg is pretty good too.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#116

This has got me thinking. I would literally pay someone to figuratively sit down with me, go through what I've done/can do etc and then based off their experiences tell me what I could be getting. Of course, it won't be too accurate and location makes a big difference but perhaps an enlightened recruiter type with a bit of experience in a couple of parts of the world could give a ballpark figure, say X in SV, Y in NY…

You can email me and I'll give you some guesstimates. Also give you some tips on how to make sure you're presenting the message you think you're presenting and what it means for your job prospects. Something like this: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/what-your-resume-r...

I would happily accept some figurative payment of good will and satisfaction of you getting more out of your career :)

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#117
post #16

If you look at how salaries are distributed across the US public, the 60k - 100k category is way too large while 151k-200k should probably be just one range and not two. As someone who hires programmers, I am much more interested in how many people make between 60-70, 70-85, and 85-100.

Heh I read that as "as someone who pays developers, I am much more interested in the low end, or at least believing that most developers are that cheap"

Maybe I should have been specific and said that I am a developer who is now the founder. I pay well above average, but I hire people who earn it.

Still, as the company grows, there will be a need for more junior developers. In our market (Nashville, TN) many senior developers still make less than $100k while some make $60k fresh out of school. As I look at how the poll numbers play out, I suspect that is true for most markets and not just mine. That is why I say the range is too big.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#118
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That calculator is making a very common and yet very fundamental error: It assumes that cost of living adjustments should apply linearly across a salary range. It costs more to live in San Francisco that it does to live in Detroit. However, that additional cost is largely static: You'll pay a lot more for housing, you'll probably pay noticeably more for food, and you may pay somewhat more for clothing and other items…

> Determining equivalent cost of living is a complex question, While that's true, the calculator presented isn't as bad as you make it out to be. It splits up the calculations across several different indexes. Food, Housing, Utilities, Transportation, Health, and Misc. It's increase is based merely on the average. This is probably fair, considering if you want to maintain the same life style you have in one location,…

You can't maintain the same level of housing no matter where you are. That's what my example comparing my home town (backwoods Connecticut) with San Francisco is about--it simply doesn't make any sense at all to compare a hundred acres in rural farmland with the equivalent housing situation in a major metropolis. Cost doesn't really enter into it.

The type of housing you can afford is a quality of life issue as much or more than it is a cost of living issue. If you live in San Francisco or New York, you accept a smaller living space than you'd get elsewhere. In return, you get access to nightlife, concert venues, and other amenities that can only be had in a densely-populated area.

If living on a hundred acres of woodland is important to you, you will not live in San Francisco. If being able to bike to work is important to you, you will not live in Los Angeles. If staying out of the cold is important to you, you will not live in Minneapolis. Money won't buy you any of these things.

At some levels, it may seem that it's just an issue of money. You can, of course, buy a detached, single-family house in San Francisco. It'll cost you millions, but you can do it if you're rich enough. Attempting to paint this as a difference in cost of living, however, is simply disingenuous--the detached home in San Francisco is the local equivalent of a mansion in my home town. It's not equivalent, any more than hiring Michael Franti to make a personal trip out to Connecticut to play for you would be equivalent to catching a show at a local concert hall.

And, finally, it's important to remember that unless you're living entirely hand-to-mouth, not all of your income goes to living expenses. If you're in the well-paid engineer club, then hopefully only a relatively small portion of your income goes to living expenses. Moving from a cheap location to an expensive one may increase that portion, but it doesn't make any sense at all to multiply your current income by a constant factor to determine the "equivalent" in a different location. That's what that calculator does, and it's deceptive and wrong.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#119

Here in Brazil, I get paid approximately 11k brazillian reais.. Translating to U.S. dollars that would be 7k. These numbers are really impressive to me.

I'm from Colombia, and currently I get paid around 20k USD yearly. I have more than 5 years of professional experience, and degrees in computer engineering, and a master in computer science.

For someone as me, those numbers are astounding.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#120

FFS, I'm getting paid £15k. I asked for £25k and was laughed out of the office.

How is that possible? Does an iPod cost 1/2 of a monthly wage where you live? How much does someone cleaning toilets make? Or are we talking net income here, after all taxes etc?
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