Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#111

Post by dekhn » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

junon wrote: post #99

Google234 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

500k is about L6. You ahou get that within 10 years if you want

I've been a software engineer professionally for 11 years. I've never had a peer make near that. I even worked at Uber in downtown SF.

Let's take a look at my salary history. I am a PhD, I didn't enter the Real World Job Market until 2001, when I was 28 (others in my cohort went straight from college to SWE, while I spent 10 years just doing research).

2001: SWE at UCSF, making about $75K/yr. This is roughly triple my graduate student salary and higher than my postdoc salary. 2007: Architect at Genentech. Make about $100K/year 2008: Join Google as L5 with a starting bonus of $25K, $125K salary, and about $100K in stock options. Stock options are refreshed every year. One year, Eric Schmidt gives everybody a 10% raise. I get promoted once. 2019: leave to work at a startup for a year, same base pay as Google, and stock grants that are now worth $1M but aren't fungible. 2021: Leave Google as L6 with base pay of $225K, 15% bonus target (which I get), a $45K annual bonus, and $700K stock vesting over four years. I count this as "around $450K/year total comp" before taxes etc.

If I had managed 2012-2016 better, I'd be an L7 or more, making about $550K/year total comp. However, these are all exceptional situations made possible by the insanity that is Google.

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#112

Post by rejectedandsad » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #110

Google234 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they could :p. What’s 2% of 9 billion?

But they definitely aren't. And realistically, Google hire most of their people in the US, so it would be 300mn rather than 7.9bn. Like come on, I have met enough Googlers over the years to recognise that they are not all geniuses. They're all very competent at what they do, but that's not the same thing at all.

It feels like my point is being proved to me....

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#113

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

rejectedandsad wrote: post #112

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they definitely aren't. And realistically, Google hire most of their people in the US, so it would be 300mn rather than 7.9bn. Like come on, I have met enough Googlers over the years to recognise that they are not all geniuses. They're all very competent at what they do, but that's not the same thing at all.

It feels like my point is being proved to me....

TBH, IQ is not massively useful as long as you are above the median (so 100+). The difference between 100-120 and 120+ in life outcomes tend not to be significant.

Regardless, it's never a good idea to assume you can't do something until you've exhaustively proved it.

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#114

Post by wheelinsupial » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

crow_bow wrote: post #48

maxcan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that I agree with you, but if I had to steelman the argument against Eng Res it would be that since pay and promotion seems to follow percentage increments year to year, if you start at a lower point than someone else, you are going to be consistently behind them. So, having this program essentially creates a second class of engineer at google, predominantly URMs, who will be given lower pay and lower…

Made an HN account to respond to this. I was in the Eng Res program, and that's not how it worked. When you converted to being a regular SWE, they gave you a BIG pay bump -- comparable to a new-grad starting salary, but rather higher than average. My comp the year after Eng Res was higher by 20-40% than my friends who started at Google right out of school.

“Nearly all residents converted to regular employees, according to the presentation. Many alumni years later have continued to feel the “negative effect” of their starting pay on their current salary, it said.” Quoted from the article.

Are you an outlier in the pay increase?

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#115

Post by hkai » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

anonygler wrote: post #9

That's insane. The residency program is a way for people from unique backgrounds to enter into the software engineering field with less stringent interview requirements. SWE can pay upwards of $500-600k after 5-10 years of experience. This was an incredible opportunity and it's an absolute shame that internal protests killed it. Yes, you get less pay and a smaller stock refresh, but I know a few people who's careers…

True equity of outcomes means that people spend different amounts of effort but get to the same results.

So people from underrepresented backgrounds should be paid the same as top engineers regardless of output.

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#116

Post by benhurmarcel » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

nivenkos wrote: post #84

junon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SWE can pay upwards of $500-600k after 5-10 years of experience. Where? lol

Here in Europe you're unlikely to break $100k in that time.

That's still really good for Europe. That's €84k, not a lot of careers pay like that after 10 years, even in STEM.

Re: Google drops engineering residency after protests over ‘inequities’

#117

Post by b20000 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #103

badlucklottery wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sounds like discrimination and should be illegal IME the "unique backgrounds" are "doesn't have a CS degree or a couple years of experience at a big software shop".

"Unique Backgrounds" meant women or lgtb or non-asian non-white. They often came from top schools, so that didn't really matter. It is way easier to get into Google via this program so some lied about being gay to get in.

the fact that this programs exist in the first place is a problem. how is it fair to have different interview processes for certain groups of people? it also results in underpaying these people and making it difficult for them to leave.