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Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

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Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#111

Post by tzs »

sidlls wrote: post #68
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #60

>We have made the decision to block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia. We have also removed our app from the Apple and Google app stores for customers in Russia. WTF? Why would you ever do that? You said you have no legal presence in Russia, why f*ck over the users? Instead of ignoring hostile stupidity you're helping it, this is mind boggling. Sorry, I can't "feel good" about your…

To me it's more disappointing that they actually considered meeting the demands of the regulatory body. I'd have simply blocked Russia after the loss in court. Also, why should Fastmail expose itself any further, in any way as a target of Russia's corrupt dictatorship? It does suck for those Russians impacted. They should turn their ire toward the real problem though: their government.

What if they could meet the regulations without it costing too much and without exposing them to risk of compromising privacy and security? I don't see why you find it disappointing that they checked to see if that was the case rather than immediately pulling out.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#112

Post by daxelrod »

stickfigure wrote: post #108

Why are they doing the government's work for them, and blocking Russia? Let the Russian government do the blocking. It's not your job to enforce authoritarianism, and no country west of Belarus is going to extradite you for providing email.

Presumably, they and their lawyers believe they are subject to Russian jurisdiction. Why else would they have challenged an order from the Russian government in Russian court?

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#113

Post by clucas »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #92
longcommonname wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We recently did a similar thing at the company I work for in response to similar pressures. The effort to make that change was significantly less than the continual effort required to deal with the pressures. From a cost perspective their decision makes sense, from a customer perspective less so.

Again, what pressures?

I think you are underestimating the trouble a nation-state can make for a foreign company, especially if that foreign company continues to leave itself exposed by doing business in that nation-state.

I don't know the exact ins and outs of how courts will enforce foreign judgements (I'm sure it's very case-by-case), but saying "we cut off signups from people in that country" is surely a very strong prophylactic against such a judgement being enforced.

And on a more petty level, Russia could make serious trouble for any Russian expats employed by Fastmail (or their relatives still living in Russia). Cutting off signups makes this at least marginally less likely.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#114

Post by mnw21cam »

stickfigure wrote: post #108

Why are they doing the government's work for them, and blocking Russia? Let the Russian government do the blocking. It's not your job to enforce authoritarianism, and no country west of Belarus is going to extradite you for providing email.

Stopping people signing up in the first place means that in a few months' time when the government actually starts blocking, they don't get a load of angry customers demanding their money back.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#115

Post by innocenat »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #32
throwawaystress wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also a Fastmail user (for the past 5 years or so), but I’m considering switching to iCloud, given the announcement it’ll start supporting custom domains. Fastmail is pricey ($50/month for the non-lite tier), whereas iCloud is $1/month for 50 GB.

Fastmail has three current tiers: Basic, Standard and Professional. Basic is $3/user/month, Standard is $5/user/month and Professional is $9/user/month. None of them are remotely close to $50/month for ordinary single users. You would need 10 users to get to $50/month for the Standard "non-lite tier" plan. Perhaps the user has confused fastmail with another service or they might have some legacy plan which is more ex…

Isn't most legacy plan less expensive? I have legacy plan that's basically the current Standard plan but at $45/yr.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#116

Post by ashton314 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #4

I wonder if the fastmail protocol could be hidden in AWS-like data streams to take an approach like telegram. If they try to block it, they shut down their entire digital business infrastructure. I have been looking for an alternative to Gmail, does anyone have recommendations? Fastmail? Proton mail? What put me over the edge is my young friend had a heart attack, went to the hospital and (during recovery) logged int…

Fastmail has been nothing but awesome. Currently using PO Box, which is a a sub-company or something. I get all the Fastmail features and it's been awesome. So happy to fork over my money for such a reliable service.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#117

Post by patrakov »

duxup wrote: post #100
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #60

>We have made the decision to block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia. We have also removed our app from the Apple and Google app stores for customers in Russia. WTF? Why would you ever do that? You said you have no legal presence in Russia, why f*ck over the users? Instead of ignoring hostile stupidity you're helping it, this is mind boggling. Sorry, I can't "feel good" about your…

I can understand Fastmail wanting to be in compliance with the law... or just not do business there. Making a whole effort of operating in Russia, being blocked, and trying to work around that seems like a potentially endless effort. Meanwhile you're offering a service to your customers that would be pretty spotty considering all the hassle going on.

It is not about compliance (existing accounts are kept, and decision to prevent signups is made purely on the basis of the IP address and not e.g. the country that issued the credit card). It is about avoiding the promised blocking of outgoing mail from Western users of FastMail to Russian users of any other mail provider.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#118

Post by patrakov »

duxup wrote: post #100
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #60

>We have made the decision to block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia. We have also removed our app from the Apple and Google app stores for customers in Russia. WTF? Why would you ever do that? You said you have no legal presence in Russia, why f*ck over the users? Instead of ignoring hostile stupidity you're helping it, this is mind boggling. Sorry, I can't "feel good" about your…

I can understand Fastmail wanting to be in compliance with the law... or just not do business there. Making a whole effort of operating in Russia, being blocked, and trying to work around that seems like a potentially endless effort. Meanwhile you're offering a service to your customers that would be pretty spotty considering all the hassle going on.

You may also want to watch my FOSDEM 2020 talk, "Software distribution: new points of failure (In a censored world)". It is about cases when governments block legitimate services due to nothing bad done by the said services, only because of their bad neighbors.

https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/sdnpof/

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#119

Post by patrakov »

varispeed wrote: post #83
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #60

>We have made the decision to block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia. We have also removed our app from the Apple and Google app stores for customers in Russia. WTF? Why would you ever do that? You said you have no legal presence in Russia, why f*ck over the users? Instead of ignoring hostile stupidity you're helping it, this is mind boggling. Sorry, I can't "feel good" about your…

Soon similar will be happening because of the EU's TERREG - only difference is that even if you block EU IP addresses, the law is still going to apply if you have a "significant" EU user base. This means companies who want to opt out will have to request proof of citizenship of all their users to establish how "significant" is their user base and then either terminate the accounts or set up a legal presence in the EU…

This is not a difference. The Russian law also talks about Russian users, not IP addresses.

Re: Fastmail accounts blocked in Russia, here's what we know

#120

Post by patrakov »

stickfigure wrote: post #108

Why are they doing the government's work for them, and blocking Russia? Let the Russian government do the blocking. It's not your job to enforce authoritarianism, and no country west of Belarus is going to extradite you for providing email.

> Why are they doing the government's work for them, and blocking Russia?

In order to avoid outgoing mail to Russian mail providers from being blocked.

I.e., if the government blocks them, then BOTH Russian and Western users suffer (Russians because they can't access the service without technical tricks, and both because they can't send mail to Russian users of other mail providers). If they block Russian user signups themselves or can otherwise kinda-sorta-legitimately claim that they don't have Russian users, then only Russian users who don't have a VPN suffer from being unable to access the service.

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