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Why we should end the data economy

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Re: Why we should end the data economy

#111

Post by bpodgursky »

Judgmentality wrote: post #64
bpodgursky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Burn it all down" as a solution — inevitably applied to cultures, systems or industries viewed from the outside — is also a plague of laziness.

I've never heard "hey this isn't working, let's start over from scratch!" be called laziness before.

"It isn't working" is also lazy, when you're describing an industry that powers half the economy, and frankly, civilization is trucking along pretty OK with the data industry warts and all.

There are certainly problems, but you haven't put enough thought into what the statement even _means_ (Would this eliminate EMR systems? Bank transfers? Credit scores?) to consider what "burning it down" means, or "it's not working" means.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#112

Post by awillen »

whatever1 wrote: post #93
infogulch wrote: post #65

Somehow organizations get an immense amount of value out of tracking everything you do, say, think, and buy; everywhere you go; and everyone you meet. Two questions: 1. Why should they profit off of my data without my consent? (Hint: they shouldn't.) 2. Why is it so hard for me to get value out of it? Shit, if it's gonna be collected, aggregated, and analyzed anyway, I should just do it my damn self and actually get…

You are getting free searches, email, messaging, photo storage etc

I don't get why this is so easily glossed over all the time... yeah, absolutely you should be able to control your data and know how it's being used. You should be able to opt out of unnecessary data collection. But the idea that you're not getting compensated for your data just isn't true - you get some really amazing tools without paying a dime for them.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#113

Post by asiachick »

ianai wrote: post #35
Impassionata wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a way to achieve the stated goals: have the government come down real hard both on the low-level data crime and the big players that are supposedly legit. Burn it all down.

I sense this would have been in the Bill of Rights had the notion been around back then. They knew the government needed to protect property rights as a fundamental principle and that is written throughout the legal code and constitution. So endowing citizens with ownership of the date of where they are, what they’re doing, and how they use sites seem like extensions of the personal property right. In a sane universe…

I doubt it. If you ask me "who lives next door" I'll tell you "Oh, the Smith's live next door, John, Jane, Jill, and Jacob. John's a blacksmith, Jane makes the best apple pie, Jill is studying to be a doctor and Jacob just turned 14"

I doubt the forefathers would have thought there needed to be a law against me passing on info.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#114

Post by aeoleonn »

cevered wrote: post #57

I highly suggest you guys checkout Decentr. They are building blockchain platform that allows individuals to have ownership over their personal data to exchange and leverage for economic benefits in a decentralized and secure way. I think it's false to say we can't collect data in a secure way therefore stop the data economy. We should be seeking to empower individuals with the ownership of their own data to create a…

when I hear "blockchain" my eyes glaze over

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#115

Post by pdonis »

Barraketh wrote: post #42

Honestly, I'm kind of sick of how bad a rap advertising gets. Now sure, companies knowing a lot about your personal life is creepy on an intuitive level, but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. The thing people SHOULD be worried about is stuff like the Experian leak, where credit companies collect your non-anonymize…

> matching consumers with products that they like

Is not advertising, it's sales: the seller establishes a personal relationship with the buyer, finds out what the buyer's needs and wants are, and proposes a product or service to them that satisfies those needs and wants. Advertising is nothing like that.

Not to mention that most things that get advertised for, nobody sells the way I just described above. The only products most people buy that get sold that way are houses and cars, and those aren't the kinds of things advertisers are trying to sell using harvested personal data. Most products that people buy that are advertised that way, they choose themselves, they don't have a personal sales person helping them.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#116

Post by whatever1 »

briffle wrote: post #108
whatever1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting free searches, email, messaging, photo storage etc

I would pay a fee to some sites to keep using their service, without tracking/advertising. But they don't offer it as an option.

There are paid options for example for email, but still people prefer the free options. Market has spoken. People just don't care about being tracked, specially if they get free goodies.

As an anecdote: I am the only one in my extended family who does not use the car insurance tracker. Everyone is calling me out on why I dont get the "free" discount.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#118

Post by awillen »

Judgmentality wrote: post #64
bpodgursky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Burn it all down" as a solution — inevitably applied to cultures, systems or industries viewed from the outside — is also a plague of laziness.

I've never heard "hey this isn't working, let's start over from scratch!" be called laziness before.

It's lazy when it doesn't come with a proposal to replace the stuff that you want to burn down.

It's like the US tax code... it is insanely complicated and in a lot of ways doesn't serve the public well (because rich folks can use the complexity of it to escape taxation), so it's easy and popular to say let's just get rid of it and start with a new, simple tax code.

The problem is it got to be the way it is for a reason. We want to incentivize people to own homes and buy electric cars and a thousand other things, and we use the tax code to do that. If you tear it down without a plan on how to keep incentivizing all the things you want, you're going to end up with some undesirable results that you then have to fix.

It's fine to say let's throw it out and start over, but if that's as far as your plan goes then it's pretty lazy.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#119

Post by donatj »

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

> No one sane would ever want all their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors

I'd happily share basically all of that information with that specific group of people - except maybe my neighbor that keeps reporting me to the city, they don't need to know my life, but if in turn I could know who was googling city ordinances in the middle of the night it might make up for it.

At worst I get a funny look for something I googled in the middle of the night?

To your point, it's 100% the government I'm worried about. They've got legal and lethal authority to do far worse than a weird look.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#120

Post by rahoulb »

Swizec wrote: post #87
cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

> your life expectancy based on how fast you walk, as measured by your phone Shit I would love to know this for myself! Is there a service or app that can crunch the numbers and tell me?

Apple Health and many fitness tracker apps can estimate your Vo2Max score based on your height, weight and how your heart rate varies during brisk walks and runs.

It's not incredibly accurate but Vo2Max is regarded as an important indicator of your cardiovascular health.

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