The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#111

Post by ludocode » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #11

If you drop some presumptions about the players you can go even faster-- Player 1: Roll a 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12. Don't purchase, so it goes to auction. In auction player 2 buys for 100% of their cash. Player 2: Rolls a 4, lands on income tax. Game over.

I think the idea is that this is the shortest game where the loser makes no mistakes. The four turn game in TFA has the loser making no decisions whatsoever.

Of course it ignores the auction rule, but it could be amended to say the loser buys each auctioned property for a dollar (or whatever amount.) The only decisions the loser makes in this case are their bid prices which are irrelevant. The outcome is the same.

Edit: Actually it's a bit more complicated than this, as buying all of the auctioned properties and mortgaging them would give Player 2 enough money to afford the rent on Boardwalk. Player 1 would have to bid close to the mortgage price for each property. That way if they win the auction they can mortgage it to get their money back to afford houses, and if they lose the auction it doesn't help Player 2 afford rent on Boardwalk.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#112

Post by stevage » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #11

If you drop some presumptions about the players you can go even faster-- Player 1: Roll a 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12. Don't purchase, so it goes to auction. In auction player 2 buys for 100% of their cash. Player 2: Rolls a 4, lands on income tax. Game over.

This isn't right. After turn 1, player 2 has say $200 worth of assets (depending on what they buy). They can mortgage that for $100. Then they need to pay 10% income tax on their assets ($20). No problem.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#113

Post by stevage » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #88

thaumasiotes wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to how tedious the game can sometimes be people ignore it because it’s too [much] work. The view that the game is tedious is directly caused by not reading the rules. Monopoly is in an odd position where everyone is convinced they know what it's like, and yet nobody knows how to play it. Turns out, if you play it according to the rules, it is not at all similar to the version with rules you made up.

It still is not fun as a game though. - For people uncomfortable with cut throat competition, this game is winner take all. - For competitive people, victory is 90% luck and therefore unsatisfying. - The game is decided halfway through the game time, the rest is the inevitable victory of the leading player.

The worst thing is it is a knock-out format, which is inherently anti-social.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#114

Post by dec0dedab0de » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #16

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #11

If you drop some presumptions about the players you can go even faster-- Player 1: Roll a 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12. Don't purchase, so it goes to auction. In auction player 2 buys for 100% of their cash. Player 2: Rolls a 4, lands on income tax. Game over.

You’d be surprised how few people know about the rule for auctioning property that is not purchased. I’m guessing most people learned to play without reading the actual rules. It’s just passed down by copying the actions of your older siblings.

skipping auctions, and having money in free parking are why most people think monopoly takes a long time to play. It's like playing musical chairs but not removing any.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#115

Post by Sniffnoy » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:44 AM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #102

Sniffnoy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, OK, here we run into a bit of a problem, in that the rules don't actually specify how the auction is conducted, so what happens if everybody passes is kind of just undefined. What you say is one reasonable interpretation. However, there is no interpretation that leaves these games as the shortest.

What would you imagine happens if everyone passes? It would be absurd for the rules to require a player to bid who does not want to bid, particularly if they did not write that out.

Well, you're assuming that passing is an option. One possibility would be that if you're bidding first, since there's no prior bid to pass to, you must bid; you can bid 0, but you can't pass. The rules just say it's an auction; they don't even say that you take turns making bids (or that this occurs in the usual turn order, or who starts), rather than it being more of a free-for-all! Like I said, it's all kind of undefined.

EDIT: Actually, a better answer for how to interpret it -- all players passing is impossible, because if all but the last player passes, then the last player has won the auction (for $0) by virtue of everyone else having passed; they don't get to a chance to pass, because they win the auction before it'd ever be their turn to pass! This is actually a pretty natural intepretation and I think how some of the video game adaptations handle it.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#116

Post by Kranar » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

insickness wrote: post #29

simlevesque wrote: post #4

The Youtube comment are saying that this requires players to make completely irrational moves and I agree

There's nothing irrational about this. Choosing not to buy properties is not irrational. Choosing to buy Park Place and Boardwalk and then put houses on it as soon as possible is not irrational. In fact, my strategy when I play is to get a color set as quick as possible while saving my money by buying as few other properties as possible, then spending all that money on houses/hotels for those few properties I have.

It's irrational not to buy properties for less than the mortgage price M (half the sticker price). You can buy a property at auction for Y <= M and immediately mortgage it to profit M - Y.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#117

Post by Buttons840 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #114

koolba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be surprised how few people know about the rule for auctioning property that is not purchased. I’m guessing most people learned to play without reading the actual rules. It’s just passed down by copying the actions of your older siblings.

skipping auctions, and having money in free parking are why most people think monopoly takes a long time to play. It's like playing musical chairs but not removing any.

In part, but it still takes a while to play, and the outcome is obvious long before the end, leading to an anti-climatic slog at the end. This happens even if you play by all the rules.

"I got 6 hotels and half your properties are mortgaged. Let's play for another 15 turns until you happen to land on my hotel, then I will win."

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#118

Post by aidenn0 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

dillondoyle wrote: post #99

koolba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be surprised how few people know about the rule for auctioning property that is not purchased. I’m guessing most people learned to play without reading the actual rules. It’s just passed down by copying the actions of your older siblings.

I didn't! And it's interesting I just read the 1st player who declines to buy can participate in the auction. How often would an opponent be willing to pay more than list price? I guess to secure like the 2nd blue property. Otherwise it seems like should always just decline to buy and hope for good auction outcome. And if your opponent good to auction too. Though maybe mortgaging properties if you have a good opportu…

You don't get any reward for landing on "free parking.". Rewards for landing on that spot are a common house rule that makes the game worse; injecting money into the game slows it down greatly.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#119

Post by aidenn0 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #117

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

skipping auctions, and having money in free parking are why most people think monopoly takes a long time to play. It's like playing musical chairs but not removing any.

In part, but it still takes a while to play, and the outcome is obvious long before the end, leading to an anti-climatic slog at the end. This happens even if you play by all the rules. "I got 6 hotels and half your properties are mortgaged. Let's play for another 15 turns until you happen to land on my hotel, then I will win."

I have often had uncertain outcomes at the end. For example, I had orange and red Monopoly with houses; the only other Monopoly with houses was green. Advantage was clearly to me. The third opponent bankrupted on green, I got the real estate tax card, forcing me to sell three houses right before my lone remaining opponent ran my gauntlet, then I hit green, jail, green again.

Re: The Shortest Possible Game of Monopoly (2010)

#120

Post by aidenn0 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

stevage wrote: post #112

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #11

If you drop some presumptions about the players you can go even faster-- Player 1: Roll a 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12. Don't purchase, so it goes to auction. In auction player 2 buys for 100% of their cash. Player 2: Rolls a 4, lands on income tax. Game over.

This isn't right. After turn 1, player 2 has say $200 worth of assets (depending on what they buy). They can mortgage that for $100. Then they need to pay 10% income tax on their assets ($20). No problem.

Player two declined to buy any properties.