Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 170 posts

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#111

Post by jobigoud »

SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #93
atweiden wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly, cryptocurrency being invented and created was a huge mistake for society at large. I hope the comeuppance isn't super destructive outside of cryptocurrency circles. Satoshi Nakamoto did nothing wrong: hard to imagine, but Bitcoin started out as a crummy C++ GUI Windows application hosted on SourceForge and adopted almost exclusively by batshit insane people. It had no value: you could CPU mine it on any or…

I'm still not sure I agree that Satoshi did nothing wrong, per se. But I really appreciate what you're saying, as this does afford some separation of the art (Bitcoin and Co.) from the artist (Satoshi). Satoshi (whether it be he, she, or they) went into creating Bitcoin intended as a peer to peer cash that was easy to spend and outside of government control. Unfortunately, at least in the case of Bitcoin, it has turn…

> that is now rebranded as digital gold

It was called that before bitcoin even existed. See BitGold, a late 90's precursor to bitcoin.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#113

Post by chii »

tgv wrote: post #10
rvz wrote: post #7

Good. Very early birds getting out rich from the cryptocurrency mania with little risk. That's how you do it.

Yes. Wait for the idiots to put their cash into it, and extract that. The rest should wait for more idiots. Too bad for the ones who get in last. So good for him.

> Wait for the idiots to put their cash into it

a fool and his gold are soon parted.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#114

Post by lottin »

nly wrote: post #61
SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wager once people have to start going back to work and all the free government money dries up, there will be a run on crypto to realize their gains en-masse, and this will trigger a massive wipe out for many latecomers. Frankly, cryptocurrency being invented and created was a huge mistake for society at large. I hope the comeuppance isn't super destructive outside of cryptocurrency circles.

> I hope the comeuppance isn't super destructive outside of cryptocurrency circles. This is one of my concerns too. I sock away a healthy % of my income in to traditional investments, and I aspire to one day own a home I can raise a family in. The current asset bubble, which I personally believe is the wedge driving cryptocurrency apart from reality, is really hurting those of us with these rather mundane aspirations…

It depends... I think cryptocurrencies might be luring clueless people away from the stock market and into the crypto market, which is probably a good thing for the stock market even if it means lower returns in the short term.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#115

Post by nly »

Hendrikto wrote: post #97
joosters wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don‘t base your opinion on DOGE. There are plenty of cryptocureencies with actual use cases that provide value. It's entertaining to see how crypto pushers all hate dogecoin because it's a 'joke', yet the only real difference between it and countless other coins (say, bitcoin) is in its name. The dirty secret is that they are all bad jokes.

Again, you are making it abundantly clear that you did not actually inform yourself: * smart contracts * decentralized exchanges * decentralized finance (lending, investing, etc) * instant borderless value transfer * actually HARD money All of it trustless, permissionless, uncensorable, resilient, not controlled by a centralized entity, mathematically provable.

All of those are interesting properties, but they are all unproven at scale and it's unclear whether they are "better" for humans than the things they claim to replace.

- Smart contracts can only effectively secure digital assets and entitlements that can be transferred electronically. Ultimately anything physical requires legal and physical entities to enforce. As an example: it's fine to put property contracts on a blockchain, but proving who owns what property is rarely a real world problem. We have land registries for this, and it's in everyone's interest to keep copies of sales contracts and sign them under witness. You still need bailiffs and lawyers to get squatters or bad tenants out of your property.

- I don't think 'centralized' exchanges are really a problem. There are hundreds of stock exchanges throughout the globe, tens of thousands of brokers and huge off-book markets. We live in a highly decentralized system already. There's an argument that Average Joe can't access these markets, but this is changing with traditional solutions already (see: Robinhood etc).

- decentralized finance (lending, investing, etc). Again, this doesn't work for lending secured against hard assets like property (i.e. mortgages). You need courts to deal with grievances over ownership, and this is where the costs lie. Solving the paperwork problem is not interesting.

- instant borderless value transfer. Well, Transferwise and many more obscure, specialized companies offer this already, and waiting a 24 hours for a big, global transfer in the worst case isn't really a big deal.

The bottom line is the needs of most people are already well served by traditional blockchainless services, and where they're not it's not obvious that they can't be.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#116

Post by tarsinge »

lottin wrote: post #24

No wealth was created or destroyed in the making of these millions, the millions simply changed hands. Think about that before purchasing a cryptocurrency. You're basically handing your money to an earlier "investor" in the hopes that a future "investor" will hand a greater amount to you. This is all there is to it.

This can also be applied to the stock market as it is used today, the majority of people don’t care about dividends or voting rights, only the price, with company earnings serving the sole purpose of predicting the future price at the expected time of selling to another person. Crypto is just the end game of that behavior where it’s not hidden.

Edit: also apart from making us question theses behaviors in other markets if that speculating behavior is bound to exist then at least it’s relatively harmless compared to doing that with real estate or commodities like food or water. Better that bank exec making that with dogecoin than other real stuff.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#117

Post by perryizgr8 »

chii wrote: post #95
roadbeats wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any scam could be defended this way. What does differentiate a scam from a legit investment ? Most cryptocurrencies are cartoon characters particularly tailored for gambling machines. I haven't seen a single use case other than enabling masses enter a massive pyramid scheme constantly manipulated in social media.

> What does differentiate a scam from a legit investment ? that the reason someone might pay you more in the future must be "legitimate" - that is the asset can be independently valued to be worth more in the future. Investment in shares is not a scam (mostly), even if they _never_ pay a dividend, as long as they earn a profit. Investment in gold, however, can be likened to a scam, as the value of gold only grows to…

> Hard to say whether cryptos behaves as gold, as some crypto does have uses beyond being sold to someone else for a higher price.

Well, gold has numerous uses in the real world. https://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#118

Post by rich_sasha »

tarsinge wrote: post #116
lottin wrote: post #24

No wealth was created or destroyed in the making of these millions, the millions simply changed hands. Think about that before purchasing a cryptocurrency. You're basically handing your money to an earlier "investor" in the hopes that a future "investor" will hand a greater amount to you. This is all there is to it.

This can also be applied to the stock market as it is used today, the majority of people don’t care about dividends or voting rights, only the price, with company earnings serving the sole purpose of predicting the future price at the expected time of selling to another person. Crypto is just the end game of that behavior where it’s not hidden. Edit: also apart from making us question theses behaviors in other market…

Companies are in general productive goods. An investor may not care about decades of dividends ahead, but they are there. They are paid (in the long term) from value created, not just a FIFO bubble.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#119

Post by perryizgr8 »

reader_mode wrote: post #36
nly wrote: post #21

It's interesting how the transfer of wealth to a Goldman Sachs executive via cryptocurrency invokes a feeling of mild jealousy and amusement, whereas the transfer of wealth to 'bankers', just like him, just doing their damn jobs and providing a service , invokes revilement in the eyes of the general public. I do think the psychological (is that the word I'm looking for?) aspects of the frothy financial climate drivin…

Crypto could easily be the largest pyramid scheme in history, I have zero interest in participating even if returns were guaranteed - that's not how I want to make money, I see no value being created in these "investments". Recent developments on the stock market kind of killed the market idealism for me. I don't know what's a better alternative, but from where I'm standing the financial system is rewarding wasteful…

> I have zero interest in participating even if returns were guaranteed - that's not how I want to make money

This is my thinking too. But I can't fully get rid of the FOMO. What if I could turn my thousands into millions? It would change my life forever.

Re: Goldman Sachs executive quits after making millions from Dogecoin

#120

Post by roenxi »

lottin wrote: post #24

No wealth was created or destroyed in the making of these millions, the millions simply changed hands. Think about that before purchasing a cryptocurrency. You're basically handing your money to an earlier "investor" in the hopes that a future "investor" will hand a greater amount to you. This is all there is to it.

Sure, but the thing being traded for these are US Dollars which are, by explicit design, worse than pretty much any other asset over the long term. Not only do they go down in value, but they go down in value in a difficult to predict pattern and more rapidly in crisises.

Holding almost literally anything nonperishable is better than dollars. We can argue what it is, but if anyone has any optimism at all about the future of Dogecoin then there is a price point where it makes a lot of sense to buy Dogecoin rather than dollars.

Post reply on HN