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"The legal profession is undergoing a massive structural shift"

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Re: "The legal profession is undergoing a massive structural shift"

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the 10% feel otherwise. One of the classic moments in the history of common law was the emergence of Equity. It arose because the strict, predictable rules of Common Law as it then existed were leading to what were clearly unjust outcomes. Sometimes no specific rule can capture the correct action. You need room for judgement. It bugs the everliving daylights out of me that so much of law is undecidable…

And the people in the 90% that don't want to pay lawyers 500$ an hour? That's what I mean, as far as I can see I don't follow as to why that does not necessarily dwarf the concerns of the remaining 10%, and also it's not even a granted that this would actually happen. The emergence of equity in common law is one thing, but common law is administered by humans, a system written in code to which anyone was free to cont…

The act of writing programs, and discovering a bottomless well of bugs in those programs, is what has made me respect lawyers all the more.

I do think some tools and practices can be adapted. I think, for example, that expert systems -- whether classical or hybrid a la Watson -- could make a big dent in that $500 figure. That is definitely pursuable.

But humans inject errors, it's what they do best. And outside of a properly formal system (and per Godel, these aren't perfectly usable anyway) the best way to identify errors is ... with another human.

You might say that judges have been performing software inspections for much longer than we have.

Don't get me wrong, law is as slow as frozen honey. But the problem domain is heinously complex and I expect that any software system would reflect that complexity. Given our profession's iffy track record on creating items of massive size and complexity, I lack your transformative enthusiasm.

I am what you might call a cautiously optimistic conservative. Or a pessimistic radical. Not sure. One blogger I host talks about "radical centrism".

Re: "The legal profession is undergoing a massive structural shift"

#112
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I typically represent customers in contract negotiations with their upstream suppliers. That means I do lots of deals with many of the same names on the other side of the table, again and again (Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, etc.) After over a decade of doing this, I notice that my clients really want the answer to two questions: 1. What are the market standard terms for the transaction? 2. What did we (i.e., the client) a…

Re your comments document orientation. This is a very good point and one that I have given a bit of thought. Contracts do indeed consist of business data and should be treated as such. To create such data in Microsoft Word and keep it in Word documents is as criminal. But the problem is worse than that. Contracts are also business logic manifest in a completely useless format called human language. If you are interes…

I believe the ISDA contracts are pretty close to being so standardized as to lend themselves to this.

The problem with composing contracts from modular units is negotiations. You would need both parties to agree to work within a closed system of modules at the outset. Otherwise, you are right back to where we are today – everything is composed more or less ad hoc.

At the end of the day, contracts will always need interpretation. Contracts are simply a manifestation (in whatever form) of what two or more people expect to happen.

A purely top-down, closed-system approach will fail to cover all situations. Likewise, a bottom-up, arbitrary system will not lend itself to systemization.

Interestingly, this dynamic is quite old in the law. There are two major types of legal system: civil and common. Civil is a top-down system where a code of laws tries to anticipate every eventuality. Common is a bottom-up system where individual cases set precedent by analogy to future situations.

In practice, both systems tend toward the middle. Civil law systems still require judges to interpret specific application of the laws. Common law systems still require codified rules to maintain credibility/consistency.

Re: "The legal profession is undergoing a massive structural shift"

#113
This is an absolutely fascinating thread-- thanks to Rachel Zahorsky for the original article, and to sunchild and other commenters for thoughts and inspiration. Am very interested in contacting others on this list with an interest in both law and code.

I recently wrote about version control and law on quora: http://b.qr.ae/kRgGyk, and about 'open sourcing' access to the tax code here: http://blog.tabulaw.com/2011/06/open-source-tax-code.html.

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