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A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#111

Post by mockingbirdy »

bArray wrote: post #109
warent wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it just for a lack of interest on our side, or are we lacking something else? A combination of the two probably. I communicate with my pet cat by mimicking her different kinds of meows, hisses, and purrs. It makes it a lot easier because it's very obvious to me she understands that language, but of course it's not perfect It seems unlikely I'm the only person who does this. Probably a lot of people speak to thei…

The two noises I used with cats are: 1. "sssssshheeeeessh" If you want them to leave, like a hissing sound. 2. A squeaking (by pursing lips together) to calls them or tell them you are interested to play. Generally I don't believe cats really try so much to communicate - at least I don't get this impression. I would say that with dogs they understand a lot more. They understand the concept of pointing and use it to c…

It seems that some dogs are even able to learn to communicate via sound buttons [1]. Maybe that's interesting if you have smart dogs, might be a good way to better understand their needs.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LQt5TCHq6E

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#112

Post by TulliusCicero »

ReaLNero wrote: post #80
TulliusCicero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Research on Apes became immoral over time Teaching apes sign language became viewed as immoral?

Raising them only by interacting with a single person (not of their species!) would be immoral for a human baby, and depending on your views of ethics, also immoral for a gorilla.

Oh, I didn't realize that was somehow required to teach them sign language.

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#113

Post by JoeDaDude »

I am reminded of the case of Alex the Parrot [1]. We all know parrots can mimic human speech very well, but the case made for Alex is that he was using actual language to convey meaning and not just parroting (pun intended) what he heard.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)

In my wild imagination, I imagine parrots being taught to communicate with humans, being let loose into the jungle, and the passing on human language to their offspring. Some years hence, people would venture into the jungle and would be able to ask the parrots for directions. :)

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#114

Post by hackflip »

rangibaby wrote: post #78
greesil wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart dogs are working dogs. If they've got no work, they'll get up to bad things usually because you've left them in your house all day. If you want a pet, get a dumb dog. Or, a very lazy breed, like a greyhound.

Agreed. I think people forget that smart animals are smart enough to do bad things because they feel like it

I had a super smart poodle mix growing up, and it was smart enough to easily open the latch on its cage from the inside with its tongue. It also knew how to rearrange chairs in order to climb onto the dinner table.

The ones that are too smart outsmart the owners, which some dog owners see as a bad thing.

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#115

Post by w0de0 »

KineticLensman wrote: post #107
masswerk wrote: post #24

What I find fascinating about this is that there are various species which have tackled human speech with at least some success (both actively and passively), while, conversely, we are apparently rather bad at participating in their communicative acts (like, imitating utterances in a meaningful way). Is it just for a lack of interest on our side, or are we lacking something else? Edit, regarding "something else": App…

> we are able to recognize individuals of other primate species by face at a very early age, but lose this ability soon I don't buy this. I visit the Primate Rescue Centre (Monkey World) in Dorset, UK, and can recognise several individual chimps and orangutans by their facial features (especially if you include ears). Discriminators include size of brow ridges, facial colouration, distance between nose and mouth, eye…

If you’ll permit me, your identification sounds very much like a conscious exercise in reason: calling out and remembering unique physical features as mnemonic devices.

That’s different than the subconscious facial recognition our brains pull off for humans; I doubt you find yourself needing to look at the president’s ears to tell if it’s Bush or Reagan.

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#116

Post by pstuart »

JoeDaDude wrote: post #113

I am reminded of the case of Alex the Parrot [1]. We all know parrots can mimic human speech very well, but the case made for Alex is that he was using actual language to convey meaning and not just parroting (pun intended) what he heard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot) In my wild imagination, I imagine parrots being taught to communicate with humans, being let loose into the jungle, and the passing o…

Kind of like this: http://www.chitka.info/attention.html

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#117

Post by BeFlatXIII »

rangibaby wrote: post #78
greesil wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart dogs are working dogs. If they've got no work, they'll get up to bad things usually because you've left them in your house all day. If you want a pet, get a dumb dog. Or, a very lazy breed, like a greyhound.

Agreed. I think people forget that smart animals are smart enough to do bad things because they feel like it

The donkey has the reputation for being stupid and lazy because it, unlike the horse, is smart enough to tell the human “I don’t care”

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#118

Post by BeFlatXIII »

momirlan wrote: post #71
humaniania wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope that people are working on machine learning projects for animal communication. If you listen to crows and ravens in the wild it seems clear that there are patterns. I would also like to see technology interfaces developed for animal use. I am worried that much of the natural language development that would occur from frequent interaction is being held back by the social isolation of most species that hu…

Apparently horses have a body language.

They’re also incredibly adept at reading human body language and emotional state. Horses with the gift of clairvoyance read subtle shifts in weight of their rider and know to jump or turn left before the rider says so or uses the reins.

I forget which book it’s in, but there’s an often-repeated tale of a horse who learned to do sums and could add numbers even without his owner in sight. It was eventually discovered that he read the anticipation of his observers and knew to stop stomping his hoof once they relaxed after peak tension.

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#119

Post by KineticLensman »

w0de0 wrote: post #115
KineticLensman wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are able to recognize individuals of other primate species by face at a very early age, but lose this ability soon I don't buy this. I visit the Primate Rescue Centre (Monkey World) in Dorset, UK, and can recognise several individual chimps and orangutans by their facial features (especially if you include ears). Discriminators include size of brow ridges, facial colouration, distance between nose and mouth, eye…

If you’ll permit me, your identification sounds very much like a conscious exercise in reason: calling out and remembering unique physical features as mnemonic devices. That’s different than the subconscious facial recognition our brains pull off for humans; I doubt you find yourself needing to look at the president’s ears to tell if it’s Bush or Reagan.

> I doubt you find yourself needing to look at the president’s ears to tell if it’s Bush or Reagan

Indeed!

But I was really just listing the discriminators for the benefit of people who perhaps haven't looked at chimps very hard. For a few of the chimps, I can look and immediately say "that's Bart" or "that's Thelma".

This may of course be my mind having internalised a few distinct 'settings' of the discriminators. But the overall effect, coming back to my original point, is that apparently without conscious thought I can recognise specific individual non-humans. The Primate Care Staff, who work with these individuals 24/7, have very good at-a-glance recognition for the entire community.

Re: A whale who tried to mimic human speech (2014)

#120

Post by warent »

gverrilla wrote: post #103
jshmrsn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common reasons include holes in the ground leading to dogs escaping out of fenced areas, or just general property damage (dogs can quickly dig large holes which are walking hazards, and don’t look as nice as a well kept yard). Also, when children play in the street, for example, wouldn’t you stop in that kind of situation? Or if children were digging large holes on someone else’s / public property?

Can't you just cover the holes, instead of trying to force dogs out of their nature?

well you could say this about any behavior. Why teach children to stop peeing their pants, isn't that just trying to force them out of their nature?

There's nothing abusive about training a dog about proper behavior. Anyway, I think a dog's nature is more about obeying humans than digging holes. That's kind of the deal we made thousand of years ago

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