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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#111
post #60

Timeline of Stupidity A: "we should give everyone free money!" B: "no, that'll make everyone lazy..." A: "no, people will work on things they love instead!" [everyone gets free money] [nobody works, everyone plays video games all day] A: "see, this proves that everyone was being exploited!" B: [smh] Plato's Five Regimes. We're entering the fourth regime.

Video games are considered e-sports in South Korea and some people do get paid to play them. Imagine a full stadium with a few guys playing games and the audience watching them on big screens.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#112
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Everyone is trying to milk the government for “support”, especially if they can get it in cash.

Why shouldn't they? The government taxes everything it possibly can, and for the past year the government has put a ton of restrictions in place that caused a lot of people to lose their jobs. It is now time for the government to start using those taxes to provide the safety net it promises us. If the pentagon can "lose" 125 billion dollars ($125,000,000,000), I really don't care that people with the ability to "milk…

Seriously. I'd rather "deadbeat Johnny" down the street milk the government for a few hundred a month than Halliburton milk them for $50,000,000,000. At least he's gonna spend a fair bit of that money locally.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#113

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

>I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages.

Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 * 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#114

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

> propped up by debt

Payday lenders make a killing on exploiting this.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#115

Well, there's a straightforward (I don't say easy) way to fix this: you require a high enough minimum wage (and healthcare, and sick leave, and etc.). It's not like the restaurant owner has the option of just deciding to pay twice or three times the labor costs, and trust that their customers will be happy to cover the difference, if their competitors don't have to do the same. Because, those restaurant (and retail a…

I think we should be going that direction,where a meal in a simple place is expensive enough to support normal wages with benefits and whatnot. Because right now, whenever someone brings up an argument that people don't get paid adequately, there's always the same 'but but the customer won't pay'. We all seem to love to have cheap meals, cheap uber drivers and cheap cleaners, while at the same time expensive office workers, expensive lawyers and doctors. It doesn't need to be so extreme on either side.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#116

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

I think the problem may be that many companies increase their prices to whatever the traffic will handle for needed items. For example, the $600 cost of epi pens.

"$100 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $321.45 today, an increase of $221.45 over 41 years" - Source:https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1980 This is a 68.89% decrease in spending power.

For comparison, the minimum wage in 1980 was $3.10, and minimum wage today is $7.25, and increase of 233.87%.

By rights the minimum wage should be able to keep up, with that big of a disparity. The problem is that purchasing power figure takes into account an average over all things. The ten cheapest cars in 1980 all had a base price under $5k (source: https://blog.consumerguide.com/cheapest-american-cars-1980/). Then ten cheapest cars in 2020 were, other than 1 exception, all below $17k (source: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g29414710/10-cheapest-...). That's a decrease in spending power for cars of ~70%.

For median family single home in 1980, $55k. In 2020, $300k. (source: https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/). A decrease in spending power of 86%.

The majority of the US is facing a huge discrepancy in the decrease of spending power amongst big ticket items, the increasing lease-economy, and unprecedented debt. There is also a sense of entitlement at avoid certain menial jobs in some. As a result a $7.25 minimum wage is not going to cut it, as that's only $14.5k per year, well below the poverty line of $26.2k for a 4 person household (2020). Double it to $15k/hr and you still are just barely above the poverty line, forcing both parents to work full time, or one parent to work two jobs.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#117

Timeline of Stupidity A: "we should give everyone free money!" B: "no, that'll make everyone lazy..." A: "no, people will work on things they love instead!" [everyone gets free money] [nobody works, everyone plays video games all day] A: "see, this proves that everyone was being exploited!" B: [smh] Plato's Five Regimes. We're entering the fourth regime.

Do you think that would last? I know I wouldn't be able to sit on my ass and just play video games for very long, even if I got paid or won the lotto, or whatever. My wife wouldn't either (though, we tend to marry our equal - or I hope we do). I'm generally curious as to what percentage of the population would actually sit for their entire lifetime and be stoned, play video games and make nothing for the long term. I realized that there is a percentage that would do this, but do you think it would really be that large? Are my friends group that skewed of a sample?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#118
post #32

Personally, the pandemic has taught me how little I really need physical stores. Only a few items, like bicycles, shoes, and backpacking backpacks, do I really prefer buying them in a physical store. So for me at least, it would be okay if all these retail jobs went away, and all these retail stores just went out of business, and you just bought everything online. It seems like it could really be a disaster for peopl…

> like working in an Amazon warehouse....

They (humans in Amazon warehouse) too are being replaced by robots. Not sure how many people know that Amazon has a robotics division [1]

Like any modern corporation, Amazon is continuously looking to reduce cost and warehouse automation is the next obvious place, by automating most of pick/pack work.

Even in shop experience is getting massively disrupted. At the one end of the spectrum there are self checkout kiosks that are super convenient and popular in the Netherlands and at the other end Amazon Go and similar with zero or minimal personnel running a shop.

These types of jobs are popular among middle to just below middle class youth (high school goers) in order to earn a few bucks and reduce financial burden on their parents. With these jobs getting automated, at least in the developed world, I wonder what’ll be those stepping stone type of jobs which are low on skill that need manual labor.

[1] https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/amazon-robotics

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#119

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

> Is it because the high-schoolers who would normally do that aren't looking for jobs due to pandemic? The concept that entry-level food service is mostly staffed by high-schoolers who don't really "need" the money is the weirdest trope. Basically every restaurant is open during school hours. Who is handling the lunch rush?

I worked in food service jobs during high school on the weekend. I graduated a semester early and worked full-time in food service for a few months, too. Not a bad option and pretty common at my school c. 2010.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#120
post #4

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

Apparently close to 30% of household income right now is from government payments. I think on average people are getting the equiv of $15/hr from gov checks. So for people to want to work it’s going to have to exceed that by some non trivial amount.

but much of that temporary.
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