Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#111

Post by Stratoscope » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

soarfourmore wrote: post #63

Stratoscope wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article some time ago about the opposite scenario. I searched for the article just now but didn't find it; would be curious if anyone has a link. I remembered it something like this (but see soarfourmore's reply for a correction): what if the command module pilot became incapacitated but was still alive? The lunar module could still dock with the command module, but the astronauts would not be able to get i…

> The would not know at that point whether the CM pilot had his spacesuit helmet on or not, so they wouldn't know until they opened the hatch whether they had just killed him. There were windows on the command module to look in, and if they weren't sure if he was responsive/unresponsive, they could tap iron onto the command module to let Collins know they were there and spacewalking. It's an interesting thought proce…

Found it!

https://spaceflightblunders.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/lunar-o...

From the article, I was wrong about not knowing whether the CMP was alive:

"Unless there was a very serious issue with the CM’s communications systems, NASA would know of the CMP’s fate immediately. Every astronaut wears biomedical sensors at all times, as part of their constant-wear garment. This telemetry is sent to the flight surgeon."

More discussion here:

https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/45426/procedure-to...

A comment from that page:

"Probably the worst scenario would be for the CMP to be alive, but disabled and not in his spacesuit. There would be no way for the other astronauts to get to the CMP without depressurizing the CM, thus killing the CMP. It's an obvious choice between three astronauts stranded in lunar orbit, versus two getting home alive. Nonetheless, I can only imagine the regret that the astronaut who would have to depressurize the CM would have."

So it is even worse than the way I remembered it: the LM pilots would likely know that the CMP pilot was alive but incapacitated and they were about to kill him.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#112

Post by 7952 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #48

slg wrote: post #29

Collins' role in Apollo 11 is often minimized in the public conciseness, but I find it particularly fascinating from a human perspective. In certain ways it seems even scarier than Armstrong's and Aldrin's jobs. They at least had more direct control over their success in landing on the moon. Collins was largely powerless to help if something went wrong. If that did happen, he would have been faced with the choice of…

Collins also spent a lot of time outside of radio comms. If something had gone wrong on the dark side of the moon, we might never have known what happened. We'd have had a perfectly cheerful conversation with the command module pilot, then a comms blackout, then nothing... With a lot of coordination, the lander crew could possibly have returned to the command module without Collins's support to find out what happened…

It seems to me that astronauts are selected precisely because they are not bothered by that kind of existential worry and fear. If something is wrong they work the problem and perhaps die trying.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#113

Post by hcrisp » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

fouronnes3 wrote: post #98

Stratoscope wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article some time ago about the opposite scenario. I searched for the article just now but didn't find it; would be curious if anyone has a link. I remembered it something like this (but see soarfourmore's reply for a correction): what if the command module pilot became incapacitated but was still alive? The lunar module could still dock with the command module, but the astronauts would not be able to get i…

Apollo 15, 16 and 17 did perform nominal EVAs from the command module after the lunar landing, to retrieve film cassettes. To this day they are the only 3 deep space EVAs ever made. All others have been either in Earth orbit or on the moon.

To clarify, they were transearth EVAs, so they were not even during orbit around the moon. I recall seeing some upscaled videos on youtube of this which looked pretty unearthly.

https://www.history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-30_Extravehic...

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#114

Post by vkou » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

mandevil wrote: post #88

vkou wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that the Luna missions were done with 1960s Soviet robotics technology... And were only a side-show to their goal of a manned landing, which was hamstrung by repeated launcher problems. (And as soon as they lost the moon race, interest in this immediately dried up on the Soviet side - the sample return in the 70s was an afterthought.) If your goal is to plant a flag and ship back ~400 Kg of moon rocks, y…

Right, but the lunar science was not just limited to sample return, and here the J missions (Apollo 15-17) with their SIM bay cameras produced much better image quality than even Lunar Orbiter for much of the Moon's surface (Lunar Orbiter 5, in the polar orbit, was able to map parts of the Moon that the J missions never saw.) Similarly, the rover's traveled farther than the Lunkhod's did, showing us a much greater ar…

Robotics has advanced a lot further from the 60s than the ability of people wearing space suits to manipulate instruments.

In fact, the latter hasn't really advanced at all in those 60 years.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#115

Post by hcrisp » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

pornel wrote: post #40

I love the photo he took, where in the frame there was literally every human who was alive and has ever lived, except Michael Collins himself: https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/a11_h_44...

He spoke about this in the documentary film, In the Shadow of the Moon [0], "Certainly I didn't feel it as fear, I felt it as awareness, almost a feeling of exultation. I liked it! It was a good feeling." He mentioned the same thing in his book, Carrying the Fire (I saw that NPR is calling it "the best of the astronaut autobiographies", and having read it, I concur.)

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMx2MA5bEtk

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#116

Post by pwg » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #97

pdonis wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no was way for him to return to solid Earth unless the lunar module came back. I'm not sure what you're basing that on. The Apollo 11 flight plan, available on the NASA website [1], shows LM jettison before TEI burn. That indicates that the LM was not needed for TEI. If for some reason the LM did not come back from the surface of the Moon, the CSM could still execute the TEI burn. [1] https://www.hq.nasa.…

The LM does return to the CSM before the burn so it is conceivable it was needed for some preparatory step before TEI. Perhaps a fuel transfer or some guidance calculations or some other maneuvers. That it was jettisoned before the burn tells us nothing about the necessity of the module up to the moment it was jettisoned.

Hmm, wouldn't the simplest explanation for the LM returning to the CSM before the TEI burn be for the simple reason of returning the two crew-members who went to the lunar surface to the CSM before initiation of the TEI burn?

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#117

Post by MDVein » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

areoform wrote: post #110

I cried today. I don't cry when strangers die, famous strangers particularly. But I cried today when I heard he had passed. He was a profound man who deserves a profound eulogy. That's beyond my capabilities, but I'd like to give it a good shake anyway. I never had the good fortune of crossing paths with him except for the one time he liked one of my tweets (I joked that I'd been touched by celebrity - he intensely d…

Very sad to hear, an inspiration to those who enjoy Space and the outer reaches of our atmosphere.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#118

Post by lambda_dn » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

Irish people should be sad that someone who fought for their independence has died.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#119

Post by nkrisc » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:37 PM UTC

soarfourmore wrote: post #63

Stratoscope wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article some time ago about the opposite scenario. I searched for the article just now but didn't find it; would be curious if anyone has a link. I remembered it something like this (but see soarfourmore's reply for a correction): what if the command module pilot became incapacitated but was still alive? The lunar module could still dock with the command module, but the astronauts would not be able to get i…

> The would not know at that point whether the CM pilot had his spacesuit helmet on or not, so they wouldn't know until they opened the hatch whether they had just killed him. There were windows on the command module to look in, and if they weren't sure if he was responsive/unresponsive, they could tap iron onto the command module to let Collins know they were there and spacewalking. It's an interesting thought proce…

I don’t know how fast they’d be able to enter and repressurize the capsule, but I suppose there’s a chance he could survive in that scenario. Though depending on why was incapacitated in the first place his chances may have even more diminished by whatever afflicted him.

Re: Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, has died

#120

Post by mulmen » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:42 PM UTC

pwg wrote: post #116

mulmen wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LM does return to the CSM before the burn so it is conceivable it was needed for some preparatory step before TEI. Perhaps a fuel transfer or some guidance calculations or some other maneuvers. That it was jettisoned before the burn tells us nothing about the necessity of the module up to the moment it was jettisoned.

Hmm, wouldn't the simplest explanation for the LM returning to the CSM before the TEI burn be for the simple reason of returning the two crew-members who went to the lunar surface to the CSM before initiation of the TEI burn?

Yeah, of course, but that doesn’t mean that was the only reason, and since that had to happen maybe TEI relied on the return of the astronauts and/or LM from the Lunar surface.

My point was just that if our only information is that the LM returned to the CSM and was jettisoned before TEI we can’t deduce that the LM was not needed for TEI.