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EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

politico.eu

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Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#111

Post by oaiey »

turing_complete wrote: post #109
oaiey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrogance. No. It is very simple: Germany does not have the concept of "National Security" and does not act like that. Germany has many big pharmaceuticals in the country. But guess what: We Germans searched a solution in a European context. We tried to not only vaccinate all of us but also everyone around us. We are exporting the shots all over the world (Canada as an example is supplied by Germany and not by the US…

As a German: this very belief that Germany does not have a concept of national security or national interests and that Germany alone can sacrifice and save the world is the new form of German arrogance.

As a fellow German: yeah, that is a reasonable statement. But you could also see as a idealistic dreamer.

But also: we see permanently how it does not work.

And also: I think we have a quite elaborate way of protecting our interests. Just the tools are so complex and the plans so multi leveled that we often fail.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#112

Post by oaiey »

sharikone wrote: post #88
oaiey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrogance. No. It is very simple: Germany does not have the concept of "National Security" and does not act like that. Germany has many big pharmaceuticals in the country. But guess what: We Germans searched a solution in a European context. We tried to not only vaccinate all of us but also everyone around us. We are exporting the shots all over the world (Canada as an example is supplied by Germany and not by the US…

Of course Germany has a concept of national security... and a large sphere of influence to protect that And it's nothing to be ashamed about. E.g. see https://m.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-new...

Yes you are right. It is just very multi leveled and not directly a budget or law.

I think we are quite active on protecting our interests. Just enforcing a Germany first politic is a complete break from our public agenda.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#113

Post by thaumasiotes »

JI00912 wrote: post #25

> the point of the legal proceedings is to make it mandatory for AstraZeneca to provide the doses set out in its EU contract The point of a contract is always that fulfilling the contract is mandatory. That said, legal proceedings won't make anything go faster any more than other attempts at what sounds like plan economy.

> The point of a contract is always that fulfilling the contract is mandatory.

This is true of almost zero contracts.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#114

Post by NumberCruncher »

shubb wrote: post #87
NumberCruncher wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the exact values, at least the ones published on public media (German ZDF): The negotiation wasn't about the purchasing prise of a shot, but about the price to "reserve a shot". Germany spent ca. 4€ per capita on "reserving an AZ shot", which adds up to a total spending of ca. 350M€. Just to have a comparison: - Last time I bought a beer in a pub in Munich a paid more than 4€ - Just last week Germany spent…

>> selling the vaccine to whoever pays the highest price It does not appear the AZ are shipping vaccine to customers based on price. We know that Pfizer are, which is why Israel has been able to pay them a premium to get vaccines first. Rather, AZ appear to have set up manufacturing dedicated to particular contracts - for instance separate manufacturing in the EU, manufacturing in the UK, manufacturing in the US, and…

> They seem to have written contracts that say 'you get what your dedicated manufacturing produces'.

It came a couple of weeks ago in the news that 29M AZ shots, hidden in an Italian harbour, waiting to be shipped out of Europe, were found by the authorities. As I said -> selling the vaccine to whoever pays the highest price.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#115

Post by shubb »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #114
shubb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> selling the vaccine to whoever pays the highest price It does not appear the AZ are shipping vaccine to customers based on price. We know that Pfizer are, which is why Israel has been able to pay them a premium to get vaccines first. Rather, AZ appear to have set up manufacturing dedicated to particular contracts - for instance separate manufacturing in the EU, manufacturing in the UK, manufacturing in the US, and…

> They seem to have written contracts that say 'you get what your dedicated manufacturing produces'. It came a couple of weeks ago in the news that 29M AZ shots, hidden in an Italian harbour, waiting to be shipped out of Europe, were found by the authorities. As I said -> selling the vaccine to whoever pays the highest price.

These are murky waters - I don't believe anyone involved.

To correct what you wrote, they were found in a warehouse at a bottling plant, not a harbor, and half of them were COVAX shots that had been produced by the South American supply chain and had just come through Europe for bottling and QC.

The other half were EU shots - held back because the EU had not yet given regulatory approval to the bottling plant.

The allegation, made by un-named sources, is that AZ were deliberately delayed this regulatory approval, presumably by being slow to file paperwork. As there is obvious hostility towards AZ, it is also possible factors on the EU side were causing a delay.

I would say that, having raided a factory with great fanfair looking undeclared stockpiles, saying you found one, and then discovering it was declared and all above board, one way out of the PR problem would be to anonymously make an allegation like that. On the other hand, maybe it's true. Who knows.

With that said... once you start thinking AZ are secretly holding vaccines back to smuggle out of Europe like some Columbian cartel, you are well into QAnon teritory. They would be risking a lot to do that - they are already facing so much for failing to meet a contract, actually smuggling drugs would destory the company. Why would they do it?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#116

Post by NumberCruncher »

shubb wrote: post #115
NumberCruncher wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem to have written contracts that say 'you get what your dedicated manufacturing produces'. It came a couple of weeks ago in the news that 29M AZ shots, hidden in an Italian harbour, waiting to be shipped out of Europe, were found by the authorities. As I said -> selling the vaccine to whoever pays the highest price.

These are murky waters - I don't believe anyone involved. To correct what you wrote, they were found in a warehouse at a bottling plant, not a harbor, and half of them were COVAX shots that had been produced by the South American supply chain and had just come through Europe for bottling and QC. The other half were EU shots - held back because the EU had not yet given regulatory approval to the bottling plant. The al…

Let's agree that we disagree. Like the German public news and the online media disagree on this topic.

> I don't believe anyone involved

I like the version "I don't believe anyone if money and/or politics is involved".

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