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Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

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Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#111

Post by wwweston »

01100011 wrote: post #35
wwweston wrote: post #16

I've supported legalization efforts in two states. But I kindof have regrets, now. And in fact, if I were in charge, I might leave it as an infraction. I don't really want it to be illegal, but as far as I can tell, the same thing that happens to cigarette smokers happens to weed smokers: perspective on the fact that smoking is the atmospheric equivalent of peeing in the pool is lost. And I wake up like I did last ni…

That existed before legalization. The only difference is now you can't tie up precious law enforcement resources because of unfavorable air currents. You can still appeal to your city or landlord. They might not take it seriously, which, given the level of your personal suffering, seems reasonable.

> That existed before legalization.

The frequency of occurrence has absolutely changed, which in retrospect seems to be exactly what you should expect.

> They might not take it seriously, which, given the level of your personal suffering, seems reasonable.

You know, I was a little worried that my comment about people losing perspective on the impacts of their habit might have been an overgeneralization (I certainly do know some people who are more circumspect about it), but thank you for volunteering to demonstrate exactly how it works.

If my "level of suffering" at being involuntarily opted into someone else's smoking choices is inconsequential, then surely their entirely voluntary choice to engage in it is inconsequential too, and their level of suffering at any requirement to forgo it should be inconsequential.

"I enjoy this and so I don't have to worry about whether it annoys or distresses anyone else" is no basis for social reasoning.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#112

Post by GeekyBear »

dragonwriter wrote: post #109
GeekyBear wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to remember the Trump DOJ threatening to renew prosecutions and members of Congress making it clear that they would expand the prosecution ban if they had to. They are perfectly willing to make pot legal, however, they prefer to avoid looking like they are doing so as long as possible. Biden's open opposition is the bigger issue here. Lets not forget who was behind a lot of the drug war legislation. >Biden was…

> I seem to remember the Trump DOJ threatening to renew prosecutions and members of Congress making it clear that they would expand the prosecution ban if they had to. If its not “sufficient numbers of Republican members of the Senate to force McConnell to actually allow it on the floor”—and it wasn’t—it was an empty threat; the House actually passed an expanded prosecution ban twice and a general decriminalization,…

You seem to be discussing a different Biden than the one we have.

>This month, something unusual happened: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer took a stand against President Joe Biden.

The New York Democrat, typically a strong Biden ally, has transformed into one of the Senate’s biggest advocates for marijuana legalization, which Biden continues to oppose. But Schumer said he’ll move forward with his legalization bill anyway.

...based on his public remarks, [Biden] seems genuinely conservative on the issue — arguing only for decriminalization (in which the threat of jail or prison time is removed for possession, but sales remain illegal), and calling for “more scientific investigations” into the issue, particularly whether pot is a “gateway drug.”

Biden, after all, not just supported but spearheaded many of the country’s current drug war policies. During the 1980s and ’90s, he backed and helped write bill after bill that toughened federal criminal penalties against all sorts of drugs. Biden has since admitted to going too far in at least some respects, but this is where he built his early political career.

https://www.vox.com/22387746/biden-marijuana-weed-legalizati...

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#113

Post by sneak »

viraptor wrote: post #95
sneak wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also can't realistically expect recreational alcohol use with no long-term issues either: alcohol kills about 100k people per year in the USA. That's not a reason to ban it. The issues are caused by the user, to the user . If users are causing issues to others (violence, theft, drunk driving, et c), those are separate and already-illegal things that can and should be enforced. Arresting people for possession is ba…

> The issues are caused by the user, to the user. For alcohol? I dare you to say that to the face of someone with alcohol addiction in family. It's a simplistic black and white view. We negotiated thresholds where alcohol is restricted (age, distribution, setting) while not banning it completely. Neither unrestricted access nor prohibition were the answer.

The answer hasn't been found, as there is still a gigantic unsolved societal disease in the USA regarding alcohol. Tobacco too.

Whatever you think is working (stopping sales at 2am or whatever) isn't. It's farce. Humans can't handle drugs, generally speaking, and permitting some whole ruining lives over others is the peak of ineffective ridiculousness.

The fact that humans can't generally handle drugs (alcohol included) is not a reason to waste time and money and imprison millions of people in a misguided attempt to address the problem. (Not that that was what the war on drugs was even for, mind you.)

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#114

Post by dragonwriter »

GeekyBear wrote: post #112
dragonwriter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I seem to remember the Trump DOJ threatening to renew prosecutions and members of Congress making it clear that they would expand the prosecution ban if they had to. If its not “sufficient numbers of Republican members of the Senate to force McConnell to actually allow it on the floor”—and it wasn’t—it was an empty threat; the House actually passed an expanded prosecution ban twice and a general decriminalization,…

You seem to be discussing a different Biden than the one we have. >This month, something unusual happened: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer took a stand against President Joe Biden. The New York Democrat, typically a strong Biden ally, has transformed into one of the Senate’s biggest advocates for marijuana legalization, which Biden continues to oppose. But Schumer said he’ll move forward with his legalization bi…

> You seem to be discussing a different Biden than the one we have.

No, I’m discussing the actual one we have, and the actual concrete positions he has taken, starting in the campaign, and reiterated yesterday by his press secretary.

You, on the other hand, are relying on a heavily-spun media conflict narrative that does not accurately portray the positions he has taken (claiming he supports “only decriminalization” when he supports all of general federal decriminalization of marijuana and federal legalization of medical marijuana and federal law giving states the freedom to choose legalization and rescheduling marijuana to schedule II federally and automatically expunging federal criminal records associated with marijuana.)

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#115

Post by akvadrako »

anoonmoose wrote: post #13
jimbob45 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bit myopic to claim that the nation’s struggles are due to one party’s inability to achieve a majority, isn’t it? Evil sits on both sides of the aisle. The Democrats have a majority now and did in 2010. They haven’t even attempted to pass marijuana legalization. I have my theories as to why but they certainly have nothing to do with gerrymandering.

Majority doesn't matter if you don't have 60 votes in the Senate, unless you think "attempting to pass"/performative legislation matters, which I do not.

Well you have to attempt it to see. I can imagine marijuana legalization getting a few GOP votes.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#116

Post by akvadrako »

triceratops wrote: post #30
1cvmask wrote: post #2

Majority of Americans support Medicare for All. But both parties are against it. Marijuana legalization is easier to pass than healthcare because there are no entrenched corporate interests against it: https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/medicare-for-all-publi...

> But both parties are against it. The Senate is split 50-50. It's fair to say one half of that is more strongly opposed to it than the other since their states even rejected the Medicaid expansion accompanying Obamacare. So it sounds like the Senate is doing a poor job of representing the people. Which leads to the obvious question: why have a Senate at all?

The Senate represents the states, not the people.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#117

Post by username90 »

eigen wrote: post #71
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part of the problem is that everything these days has to be done on federal level. There's even federally mandated shower flow rate [1]. Just leave this shit up to the states. [1] https://www.waterpik.com/shower-head/blog/shower-head-gpm/#:... .

> There's even federally mandated shower flow rate (2.5 GPM max). Just leave this shit up to the states. from your link, some states can set lower. | To conserve resources and save money, some state and local governments mandate even lower GPM flow rates than the federal regulation. | Examples of national and local regulations include: | * New York City and the state of Colorado require a maximum of 2.0 GPM | * Calif…

Why should it be illegal to use a 3.5 GPM shower in a water rich state? That is the standard people prefer with no regulations.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#118

Post by GeekyBear »

dragonwriter wrote: post #114
GeekyBear wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be discussing a different Biden than the one we have. >This month, something unusual happened: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer took a stand against President Joe Biden. The New York Democrat, typically a strong Biden ally, has transformed into one of the Senate’s biggest advocates for marijuana legalization, which Biden continues to oppose. But Schumer said he’ll move forward with his legalization bi…

> You seem to be discussing a different Biden than the one we have. No, I’m discussing the actual one we have, and the actual concrete positions he has taken, starting in the campaign, and reiterated yesterday by his press secretary. You , on the other hand, are relying on a heavily-spun media conflict narrative that does not accurately portray the positions he has taken (claiming he supports “only decriminalization”…

Sorry, but Vox is not fake news, and you cannot spin decriminalization into full legalization.

My point remains.

Biden is a larger obstacle to full legalization than Congress.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#119

Post by throwaway0a5e »

mcny wrote: post #91
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, what's wrong with California regulating emissions? People have rights. And the most straightforward way to cater for these rights is to split people into groups. If 90% of people in Alabama don't want weed legalized, don't force it upon them. Save the vigor for what's really important.

> Sorry, what's wrong with California regulating emissions? Nothing. Ideally it would be at the federal level so California wouldn't have to do it though. > If 90% of people in Alabama don't want weed legalized, don't force it upon them. No. The hypothetical ninety percent of people in Alabama have no right to restrict the rights of the other ten percent. It doesn't affect them. They should stay out of it.

Why does this stuff need to be at the federal level? CA has a very different air quality situation than Alabama. Why can't they both regulate air quality as they see fit?

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#120

Post by ike0790 »

ddingus wrote: post #105
ike0790 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal government is horrible at competing in the free market when it comes to pretty much any good/service. For medicare to have a chance, they would need to eliminate the private market for healthcare. No one that can afford private healthcare would opt for government healthcare. Those who truly rely on government healthcare I assume wouldn't pay the monthly premium. We could defund the war machine but neither…

Primary health care, as a market, is illegal in much of the world. Most of the world disagrees with what you put here and performs better than the US.

False. America’s healthcare quality is the best in the world despite current issues with affordability. Most developed countries with socialized medical care are far smaller then the US. Most are smaller then just LA or NYC alone. Every market the government enters by subsidizing cost creates market distortions that have contributed to multiple financial crises in this country(mortgage and higher education).

My comprise would be let the states implement socialized medicine. My hunch is that with within a few years every economically productive person in those states would move states within 2-3 years. The tax burden and lack of choice in health care would be a no brainer to leave. Most people think socialized medicine will fix everything overnight put don’t think about what rights they are takin away from individuals to achieve their goals.

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