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.NET for Beginners (2020)

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Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#111

Post by fergie »

interblag wrote: post #99
fergie wrote: post #86

Read the whole article nodding my head at all the valid criticisms of .NET, but towards the end I began to wonder: when are the arguments in favour of .NET coming? And finally, at the very end, this paragraph appeared: " .NET is a great technology for experienced developers who grew up with the platform as it matured, but I'm not sure if I'd still enjoy learning it today as much as I did in 2008. Whilst the complexit…

I can share some insight here. I got into .NET (Core) by virtue of joining a company that used it, after previously focusing mostly on Python and JavaScript (with a self-taught background in C going back to childhood prior to that). Initially I had the same tribalism that a lot of people seem to have towards .NET, for whatever reason. Eventually though, my conclusions: - .NET Core is pretty reasonable. Platform agnos…

- Platform agnostic

- Decent command-line tooling

- Doesn't force you into an IDE vertical unless you want to

I'm not saying that the points above aren't true exactly, but surely they are less true for .NET than they are for just about any other mainstream development stack?

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#112

Post by jbjbjbjb »

t-writescode wrote: post #8

The complaint around all the different concurrent iterations of .NET rings true to me. It used to be that you only needed "current version of .net" and then you just ran forward with all of the standard libaries and Visual Studio handled all of that for you and it was wonderful. Now you need to work with .NET Core and download a bunch of disjoint nuget packages to make everything work; and, then you download a specif…

The author comes from the beginners perspective but it sucks for veterans too.

How many transitions have you done? As a long time dotnet developer I feel like there’s been constant transitioning and back and forth.

It isn’t simple to transition either. As you have to wait for all your dependencies to transition, there are usually many different solutions to update, there are breaking changes and bugs to deal with and on top of it there’s the constant moving target to be up to date. It’s definitely made it painful to use dotnet.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#113

Post by lbriner »

Definitely a frustration for those of us having done .Net for 20 years. Even the naming frustrates me. Every time they seem to create a new "one name to rule them all", it only lasts a short while until a new one comes along net framework, .net core, .net standard .net 5 and apparently now .net 6.

As the OP said, the overarching problem is probably trying to be all things to all people and pretending that all of those things are .Net. It also produces a sadly common attitude now of "we won't fix that in dotnet core 3, upgrade to .net 5" as-if that is even a possibility for many existing apps.

One idea that comes from way back in the day was having an IDE that you could set to beginner, intermediate and advanced so that when you start out, you only see a subset of things. You can then get more confident in the basics before seeing more options and windows.

Another idea I liked was removing older features so that you don't keep getting bigger and bigger.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#114

Post by alexon1234 »

I can not agree more with this post. After being a C# developer for 5 years, I can not think of a worst language to learn that C#. The ecosystem is dead just check the latest startups from YC, how many are using C#? How many startups nowadays are using C#?

Currently there are better options than C# or .NET. You want simplicity, you have Go. You can create an API server so simple and easy to understand. You want a full framework, you have Rails. Rails give you everything so easy to be productive and start shipping. Just run gem install device and you have authentification. You need to storage files, images, etc., just a simple tag on your model and really to go.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#115

Post by interblag »

fergie wrote: post #111
interblag wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can share some insight here. I got into .NET (Core) by virtue of joining a company that used it, after previously focusing mostly on Python and JavaScript (with a self-taught background in C going back to childhood prior to that). Initially I had the same tribalism that a lot of people seem to have towards .NET, for whatever reason. Eventually though, my conclusions: - .NET Core is pretty reasonable. Platform agnos…

- Platform agnostic - Decent command-line tooling - Doesn't force you into an IDE vertical unless you want to I'm not saying that the points above aren't true exactly, but surely they are less true for .NET than they are for just about any other mainstream development stack?

Yeah, lol - I guess I mean that they were "considerably more true than I expected them to be, based on my previous prejudices about .NET"

Before I was forced to try it, if you had asked me whether having a "normal" development experience using .NET was possible I would have said "no way". After being forced to do it I was pleasantly surprised to see that it didn't feel particularly different to most other compiled languages that I've used. YMMV.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#116

Post by andi999 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #103
mrweasel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now there are four options WPF, WinForms, UWP and Xamarin. Ok...Why are there four options? What are the differences? Are one or more of them about to be deprecated? You're most likely best of picking WinForms. It's old school, but it seems like it's going to be the one Microsoft will have the hardest time killing. WPF, UWP and Xamarin fine frameworks, but for the 0.9X developer who just want a window, with a few i…

VS + WinForms is like the Playschool Windows GUI development kit. That sounds like talking it down, but I'm not actually. Good for things like the sales guy wants something that pulls data out of a company database and sticks it in a excel file. And wants it tomorrow.

Getting the job done is an important aspect of a toolchain.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#117

Post by fergie »

interblag wrote: post #115
fergie wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Platform agnostic - Decent command-line tooling - Doesn't force you into an IDE vertical unless you want to I'm not saying that the points above aren't true exactly, but surely they are less true for .NET than they are for just about any other mainstream development stack?

Yeah, lol - I guess I mean that they were "considerably more true than I expected them to be, based on my previous prejudices about .NET" Before I was forced to try it, if you had asked me whether having a "normal" development experience using .NET was possible I would have said "no way". After being forced to do it I was pleasantly surprised to see that it didn't feel particularly different to most other compiled la…

Interesting- thanks for sharing!

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#118

Post by andi999 »

lbriner wrote: post #113

Definitely a frustration for those of us having done .Net for 20 years. Even the naming frustrates me. Every time they seem to create a new "one name to rule them all", it only lasts a short while until a new one comes along net framework, .net core, .net standard .net 5 and apparently now .net 6. As the OP said, the overarching problem is probably trying to be all things to all people and pretending that all of thos…

Yes. Naming is the worst. Oh, I have dotnet how do I make a webpage. Nah, you need also asp dot net. Or asp core .net, but this wont run on .net anymore but only on core .net..... headache...

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#119

Post by roebk »

kumarvvr wrote: post #64

.NET carries a lot of baggage, but .NET Core is absolutely awesome. I would really encourage everyone to give it a try. I have personally used Blazor and its really good. Not to mention building WebAPIs with ASP.NET Core and EntityFrameworkCore. Most of your dev needs will be met by .NET Core.

It's not called .NET Core any longer. Another naming switcheroo that people have to get familiar with.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#120

Post by oblio »

xbar wrote: post #88
manigandham wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the error? Also like the others say, F# on dotnet is like Groovy for the JVM. It's nowhere near the popularity. Any reason you didn't try C# instead?

It seems like you understand the story for both of them. Any reason why F# is not a valid starting point language on Mac?

Because it's a community language. Microsoft doesn't officially support it fully. So you have 20-30 or however many volunteer devs (probably fewer) working on it in their spare time.

If you're just getting used to the platform, you're shooting yourself in the foot by going with niche setups. Try C# first to figure out your way around the platform and then branch out, not the other way around.

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