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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#111

Post by chaorace »

laplacesdemon48 wrote: post #103

Both the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use an adenovirus to deliver DNA instead of mRNA wrapped in lipid (like Moderna & Pfizer). Everywhere I read about the J&J vaccine, I see something like "the DNA vaccine doesn't alter your DNA". Can somebody please clear this up? As far as I understand, the mRNA just stays in the cytoplasm of the cell and gets used up by the ribosome to create spike proteins. The adenovirus vecto…

I think the argument hinges on the technicality that it's not splicing itself into the host genome, so no chance of it becoming a retrovirus or something like that (in the event that the cell's lineage is not extinguished by the immune system).

I'm not a genetic engineer (what a time to be alive, eh?), but I'm pretty sure an adenovirus that did permanently modify cell DNA would be more like CRISPR, including the risks that entails (such as the risk of incorrectly splicing the host genome and potentially creating a precancerous mutation)

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#112

Post by [deleted] »

Eduard wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Six cases in seven million administered doses. One death. Meanwhile, hormonal birth control causes clots in 1/1,000 women. No one blinks an eye. The vaccine hesitancy this engenders is likely gonna kill more than that one person. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381936112311148548 > Public health bureaucrats have some weird habits in how they reason under uncertainty and how they communicate to the public. I…

This is kneejerk statistics 101 reaction. * Hormonal birth control - years of research. Years of evidence and practice. Knowing what to do when this and that happens. Recommendations for women with known conditions not to take this and that hormonal birth control. * Novel vaccination - barely month of research. Weeks of evidence and practice. We don't have best practices yet. I'm fine with anyone to make a decision o…

[deleted]

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#113

Post by calvano915 »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #108
calvano915 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths by COVID implies that those at risk will forego all other options to decrease risk of infection, such as masks, distancing, etc. Those options are opt in the same as a vaccine, though the vaccine is 2x and done. Nonetheless, just because version 1/2 COVID vaccines are good enough for you does not others should just jump on board when other options exist that can vastly reduce risk of infectionand/or death. In…

> Deaths by COVID implies that those at risk will forego all other options to decrease risk of infection, such as masks, distancing, etc. Masks are supposed to protect others from you. Wearing a mask is not meant to help a person who may be at risk decrease his/her own risk of infection. In any event, now that spring weather is here in the northern hemisphere and the vaccination campaign has given people hope, social…

While mask effectiveness may be skewed the direction you state, you can't tell me that wearing one along with other precautions has no positive impact on your own infection risk.

For those willing to receive vaccination right now under informed consent, I'm all for it. I agree people are over the pandemic and making the situation worse. I disagree with many commenters here that are shaming and/or implying that people like myself are anti-vax vs simply being willing to wait for much more evidence before jumping on board with incredibly widespread usage of an incredibly not well understood treatment.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#114

Post by ceejayoz »

1337biz wrote: post #107
Eduard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kneejerk statistics 101 reaction. * Hormonal birth control - years of research. Years of evidence and practice. Knowing what to do when this and that happens. Recommendations for women with known conditions not to take this and that hormonal birth control. * Novel vaccination - barely month of research. Weeks of evidence and practice. We don't have best practices yet. I'm fine with anyone to make a decision o…

It goes even deeper than that. I have seen that meme catch on in so many feminist Twitter and Instagram accounts that it is essential to look at the play here. The "you woudn't care about women dying" narrative completely derails the essential discussion (aka when do we determine vaccine to be save) by selectively picking facts from a completely unrelated health area to turn it into an activist subject. It reminds me…

The narrative - and I think it's a correct one - is "we accept far riskier interventions in our everyday lives already, of which birth control is one good example".

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#115

Post by yread »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Six cases in seven million administered doses. One death. Meanwhile, hormonal birth control causes clots in 1/1,000 women. No one blinks an eye. The vaccine hesitancy this engenders is likely gonna kill more than that one person. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381936112311148548 > Public health bureaucrats have some weird habits in how they reason under uncertainty and how they communicate to the public. I…

Note that in EU it also started with 7 cases ~1 month ago. Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated. If you look at women only it will probably go even higher. And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949108

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#116

Post by SomeHacker44 »

thedrbrian wrote: post #92
jonplackett wrote: post #18

I just made this website to show you how really, really small the risks are, and how they compare to risks we happily take every single day. whatoneinamillionmeans.com If you're not willing to take 1 in a million chances, it's gonna be pretty hard for you to get out of bed today. This vaccine seems to have about the same rate, which makes sense as I think it uses the same technology.

I appreciate what you’re doing but I’m still avoiding the vaccine as long as I can. I’ve got a class 1 medical , a PPL and I hope [ha] one day to get paid to fly planes. I really don’t want another Pandemrix because with my luck I’d end up with the side effect. Also I’m MASSIVELY allergic to certain drugs and I get the NHS third choice for antibiotics and anti inflammatories.

FAA mandates only a two day wait after vaccination. I suggest the risks from "long covid" should you recover from an initial infection are worse than most problems a vaccine could cause. I waited too, but after millions of okay doses of Pfizer I took one. I did suffer two days of 2nd shot malaise (fevers and lethargy) which is expected as my immune system ramped up to fight the mRNA "invasion" of the spike protein.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#117

Post by ceejayoz »

yread wrote: post #115
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Six cases in seven million administered doses. One death. Meanwhile, hormonal birth control causes clots in 1/1,000 women. No one blinks an eye. The vaccine hesitancy this engenders is likely gonna kill more than that one person. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381936112311148548 > Public health bureaucrats have some weird habits in how they reason under uncertainty and how they communicate to the public. I…

Note that in EU it also started with 7 cases ~1 month ago. Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated. If you look at women only it will probably go even higher. And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949108

> Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated.

Per https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVI..., that's 30M AZ doses. You're still talking about one in a million chance of death here.

> And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person Add a few more exclusions and no one dies of COVID, sure.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#118

Post by symlinkk »

ceejayoz wrote: post #117
yread wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that in EU it also started with 7 cases ~1 month ago. Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated. If you look at women only it will probably go even higher. And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949108

> Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated. Per https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVI... , that's 30M AZ doses. You're still talking about one in a million chance of death here. > And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person Add a few…

The point he’s trying to make is that if you’re in a low risk group (let’s say under 30 for example) maybe it’s a better idea to just skip the vaccine.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#119

Post by yread »

symlinkk wrote: post #118
ceejayoz wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then doctors went through the records and now there are 200+ sick, 25 people dead from CVST alone (clotting that causes bleeding in the brain) with incidence in Norway 5 out of 130000 vaccinated. Per https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVI... , that's 30M AZ doses. You're still talking about one in a million chance of death here. > And if you compare that to CFR from COVID for person Add a few…

The point he’s trying to make is that if you’re in a low risk group (let’s say under 30 for example) maybe it’s a better idea to just skip the vaccine.

I would still take the vaccine but the point I'm making is that it's serious enough to offer younger people some other vaccine, investigate why is it happening, how to fix it (use a different vector, adjuvant or dosage?) and roll it out safely. Call it version 1.1

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#120

Post by bitcurious »

I think this is an example of where government transparency would greatly aid the discourse and build trust.

Where is the math that suggests that pausing the J&J vaccine is prudent? Inputs being risk of getting covid, risk of getting a blood clot, risk of injury/death from covid, risk of a new covid variant appearing, etc.

Without that transparency we’re all just guessing.

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