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34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

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Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#111

Post by g051051 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #39
benbristow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

> your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow.

This! The office paradigm values everyone else's time over my time. It paints interruption as a virtue. My last employer (before COVID) cancelled all WFH with the statement "We all know a 15 minute face-to-face conversation is better than a 3 day email chain". What about the other 99% of my time? Any time saved by that 15 minutes interaction is dwarfed by the amount lost in other daily nonsense.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#112

Post by mulmen »

benbristow wrote: post #95
mulmen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? No, absolutely not. As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. > Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually bl…

I'm talking more about if I've got a story where something isn't clarified properly. The project I'm on at the minute, the stories really aren't well refined at-all so I need to talk to a project manager/architect-style character for something that I can't answer myself because I simply don't know. I've said things about doing refinement sessions etc. but they've never surfaced. What you say sounds pretty selfish tho…

It's not selfish at all. I treat other people the same way. I am eager to help teammates with their problems and frequently do. If they have a question they can send me an IM or email and I will respond when I have time to answer. Interrupting other people to solve your problems is selfish.

If you need clarification then send an email, add a comment in your issue tracker or set up a meeting. There's no reason to interrupt someone doing productive work to get clarification on a story. You should be able to manage parallel stories and make progress as you get clarification.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#114

Post by sam0x17 »

Alupis wrote: post #13
User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

> or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency?

What? Wouldn't you _rather_ be in a zoom call for something like that?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#115

Post by mulmen »

abduhl wrote: post #99
mulmen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? No, absolutely not. As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. > Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually bl…

It sounds like you want to be a contractor, not an employee. I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" and does not include language such as "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone."

> I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving"

Yes, all of those things are true and I do all of those things. I am speaking specifically about interrupting a coworker who is doing productive work.

> "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone."

I didn't say anything about this. Respecting your coworkers time does not require any of it.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#116

Post by samr71 »

rhacker wrote: post #5
samr71 wrote: post #4

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

why?

- I'm a young college grad. It's difficult to new meet people without that workplace structure

- I'm far more productive in an office

- Onboarding remotely really doesn't work at all

In short, working from home is boring, lonely, and stressful all at the same time.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#117

Post by spockz »

macintux wrote: post #81
spockz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? If anything, I think etiquette has improved in our situation. No more in person interruptions or people just hovering at t…

> Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? In the office, you can generally observe the state of your co-worker. Are they on a phone call? Are they already talking to someone in person? A phone/Slack/Teams call can be quite disruptive if someone is already in a meeting. We haven't fully adapted work culture to remote work…

Teams shows your status as on a call or presenting already. (Or is this a server specific setting?)

When I’m in a call I don’t get notifications of chats or phone calls.

If I need to focus I set my status to do not disturb and I don’t get notifications and calls go to voicemail.

So I do not share your observations.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#118

Post by iso1631 »

benbristow wrote: post #26
Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

We have an open slack call all day, if you want someone you just say "Bob, are you free". Bob is either busy and ignores you, or has time and can deal straight away.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#119

Post by sam0x17 »

benbristow wrote: post #26
Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

I know some teams that just sit in a video call all day with each other while they code. For these guys, it's like having everyone in the same room. People just haven't been imaginative enough about how to make remote feel like in person when desired.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#120

Post by ishjoh »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #27
kobieyc wrote: post #10

Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted.

I'm an extrovert and I went fully remote. I have much more fulfilling interactions with my wife and small children throughout the day compared to basically anything I experienced at work. I can leave the house at 5:00 PM on the dot, so we can all go out and have fun with other friends and families (in my city we're not locked down at all) much earlier in the day compared to old commute times. I do miss the free food…

When I was in my 20's and lived in NYC, a lot of my social life was organized around work even though I had friends and was in a committed relationship.

Networking events, tech talks, company outings, there was lots of things to fill up my calendar.

Now that I'm in my 30's and I've moved to a smaller city to raise kids, it's all flipped. Family & friendships take the large majority of my free time and I only attend work events if I'm traveling for work anyways, which I haven't done since 2019.

I imagine if I was still living the life I did when I was in my 20's, I would really miss those interactions.

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