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Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

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Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#111

Post by fsloth »

elyobo wrote: post #95
ethbr0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who sympathizes with your comment ("tech stack complex and fugly") and has made moves both ways in terms of salary (high to low for QoL -25%, then low to high again +50%), start with your requirements . OP did a great job of saying "Here's what I need ." Until that's staked out, you don't know what's too little, enough, and too much. But generally, minimizing and controlling costs (critically, through city…

Partner choice and choice whether to have children are other critical considerations in cost control.

"Family as the main instrument of cost control" - now that is bleak :D

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#112

Post by Aeolun »

Kinrany wrote: post #81
vishnugupta wrote: post #70

You haven’t stated your nationality (or country of residence) so this advice may or may not work out for you. Lot of European software companies fall in this category. Not necessarily low expectations but you are expected to work only during business hours and the work is typical CRUD app development/maintenance. The projects are managed well so no crazy fire fighting to meet super tight deadlines. On top of that if…

> but you are expected to work only during business hours Surely that's normal?

If your definition of normal means business takes place somewhere between 7am - 12pm, sure.

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#113

Post by RGamma »

imagine99 wrote: post #6

I do kinda understand where you're coming from but I want to warn you against this approach. These jobs you mention, they DO exist. But they break people and make them intensely miserable. Look into "boreout" (as opposed to burnout) to learn more about this. You will be very happy for the first few months, being able to browse HN, news sites and Reddit all day while nobody cares about what you do, nobody wants your i…

Intentionally exaggerating/misinterpreting you here, but you can also turn this around and say someone's dead inside because they have to turn to a job to get contentment/fulfillment.

What can or can't fulfill someone in their specific situation is highly dependent on their inner constitution, their peers and societal and cultural environment. In ancient Greece being free from menial duties and being able to freely engage in science, philosophy and politics was regarded as the highest state of existence.

I know someone who had to show up 8 hours a day for 20 years without anything to do and he's practically the most energetic person I know (bordering on annoying actually), spending time with family, gardening, traveling and collecting memories.

In practice you probably want a healthy middle way of work and leisure and OP presumably wants the focus on leisure which I can understand :P...

Also, monetizing your hobby to a degree that you can be financially dependent on it causes it to no longer be hobby by definition (more like hobby-equivalent work)

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#115

Post by gorpomon »

I love this question for its honesty. Frankly if I had a job I just needed technical competence on without much thought, I'd probably hire you. Our 1-on-1's would be brief and probably just be you demoing whatever hobby it is you alluded to. As long as you can crank out some decent code, I don't see a reason why a person who needs some quality work done shouldn't at least give your desired arrangement a chance.

Unfortunately right now I do need product focused engineers, but in this case you wouldn't want to work for me anyways :-)

This is also a great thought exercise, what jobs would be good for you? Thinking on it a bit, I think the following could work:

1. Scrum team member at an all remote company on one of their lesser products. If you work fast then you can probably do it in a few hours each day.

2. Maybe a small consultancy where you work on a contractual basis just completing tickets?

3. Government. A small city council style place where you specify you need remote work and then probably the workload is minimal? I don't like the idea of being a burden on a government when there are perfectly dysfunctional companies you can find this with, it feels somewhat undemocratic, but in a pinch this might do?

4. A niche field? Maybe take up COBOL? Then you can specify the hours you work and if the patches are minimal you can fly through them?

Ultimately the thing that might get you to this arrangement fastest is being really good at your job, so you can fly though the work. So perhaps doubling down on one field and becoming a domain expert is the path to this arrangement?

These are all speculations, and hopefully they help you on your path to your desired role. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#116

Post by dustinmoris »

I really feel for your question because I have felt in similar ways recently. The pandemic has made life really dull and my days literally just consist of work, eat and sleep. Everyone on our team feels the same way and even though nobody really is asked to work long or hard everyone still feels on the verge of a burnout and a mental crisis, because we all feel stuck in a surreal world of four walls and isolation.

Anyways, those feelings aside, I can recommend to do some contract work. Contract work allows you to switch work frequently and take some longer breaks in-between whilst charing good rates whilst you work in order to afford the breaks.

Additionally contract work allows you to change up the projects you work more easily. In your case I'd recommend to look for a contract role where you help with the maintenance of some old boring tech project. These projects don't normally attract career hungry over-achievers which means you'll likely end up on a small team (because old boring tech projects don't attract lots of business investment) and a team of fairly mellow and chilled co-workers, more like the 10am-4pm type of guys and girls.

Also as a contractor you can work more flexible. I for instance have reduced my work days to only 4 days a week which has been a really nice change this year.

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#117

Post by YinglingLight »

nickd2001 wrote: post #109

It sounds to me like you're experiencing burnout (possibly lockdown-related) and/or have worked unsatisfying jobs and/or for not-so-great employers. I worry that the strategy you declare you intend to pursue, while pragmatic, won't lead to long-term happiness or fulfilment. We all need to feel useful and have a real mission for at least some of the time. Hopefully you could find something, maybe part-time, at a gover…

We get meaning from the responsibilities we voluntarily choose to bear. If OP isn't raising children, then yes, he/she needs to bear an incredible level of responsibility in their career/community to have a meaningful 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#118

Post by pdimitar »

cik wrote: post #80
killtimeatwork wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree with the Scrum Master suggestion, my Scrum Master pretty much just creates meeting invites for 40 hours a week. Same here! Scrum masters are secretaries on managers' salaries. They're the true winners of the corporate game.

I think they get a bad rap. Good scrum masters are worth their weight in gold at scale. The solve all inter-team comms, the bat away distractions, and they generally find the answers, or the people with the answers and get them solved and batted out. Bad scrum masters take up space with reporting meetings that aren't reporting - but who are we kidding. I've been privileged to work with both.

For 19 years of career I've never met this unicorn scrum master you are describing.

Not a counter-argument, just sharing an anecdote.

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#119

Post by tonyedgecombe »

elyobo wrote: post #95
ethbr0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who sympathizes with your comment ("tech stack complex and fugly") and has made moves both ways in terms of salary (high to low for QoL -25%, then low to high again +50%), start with your requirements . OP did a great job of saying "Here's what I need ." Until that's staked out, you don't know what's too little, enough, and too much. But generally, minimizing and controlling costs (critically, through city…

Partner choice and choice whether to have children are other critical considerations in cost control.

Partner especially, you can always raise children on a budget.

Re: Ask HN: What tech job would let me get away with the least real work possible?

#120

Post by hectormalot »

ethbr0 wrote: post #91
apexalpha wrote: post #75

I don't know about putting in the least amount of effort for 5 days a week. But what I do know is that in my country, the Netherlands, part-time work is more and more becoming the standard. Already, 75% of women and 30% of men work 32 hours a week or less. In many sectors the fulltime standard has been lowered to 36 hours, which means every other Friday off. I myself started on 40 and will move to 32 hours somewhere…

I'm extremely curious about this from a practical perspective. (Disclaimer: American, so probably not the best work-life perspective) As far as company / coworker expectations, how does this work? Are responsibilities / work adjusted to fit the hours provided? What about being on-call? It seems like something a lot of companies should be taking advantage of, but the desire to own souls fights against it.

Majority of my team works 4 days/week, but do so by working 4x9 hours (36 total) instead of 5x8 hours (40 total). We don't really do less work (or take longer for projects).

Some observations:

* The folks working 4 days are a bit less likely to pick-up 'side activities' (e.g. help organise an external event, lead some of the recruiting efforts, etc.), because a day away takes out 25% of active time in one go.

* Ratio overhead vs work is probably better for the part of the team working 4x9 vs 5x8. It turns out they can miss many of these meetings and still be fine without additional catch-ups. (unfortunately not in my power to just remove it completely)

* I believe in people having broad responsibilities ("deliver this project in the best way you see fit") rather than "work X hours". We don't downscope projects because someone works 4 vs 5 days, but no one has ever remarked on it either. This type of responsibility sometimes means people wrap-up early, sometimes they feel responsible enough to pick something really important up in the evening/weekend and take a few hours off on another day.

* I think the ~10% difference wouldn't be measurable for software (or AI in our case) development anyway, we're not a call center where you can measure 'minutes called'.

Final notes:

* This is my European/Dutch perspective. I understand this trend is stronger in the nordics/Germany/Netherlands than in the southern countries. Having managed a team in the US in the past, I find it hard to imagine how this would work in the US culture I experienced.

* I have no desire to own souls ;)

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