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For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

timesofisrael.com

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Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#111

Post by hnthrowaway8493 »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #64
twobitshifter wrote: post #31

The actual paper was posted yesterday but got flagged. I don’t dispute any of the evidence but I do have 2 points to raise. 1. 95,000 years is plenty of time for adaptations in diet. The development of adult lactase for processing dairy was famously quick. The human diet is today well adapted to other foods without causing severe reactions. 2. The researchers note that our ancestors were primed to store fat for perio…

>95,000 years is plenty of time for adaptations in diet Is it? Is it enough for all kinds of dietary adaptations? If me and my progeny eat grass for 95,000 years, will we adapt to be able to digest it? On lactose: many of us carry the mutation that helps us digest lactose into adulthood (without any seeming issues). But does that make it ideal to consume? Is consumption of lactose into adulthood causing any issues th…

That's not how evolution works. The question to ask is, if most food sources except for grass disappeared, would humanity as a whole (through mass starvation and the resulting natural selection) adapt to be able to survive on grass within the next 95000 years? And the answer isn't necessarily yes; humans might also just go extinct.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#112

Post by AlotOfReading »

m000 wrote: post #97
microtherion wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be some rather dubious assumptions there, notably that hunting is a more efficient way of acquiring nutrition than gathering. I'm not a specialist in the field, but my understanding was the opposite. And sentences such as "[...] baboons [...] devote almost all their daylight hours to feeding [...] while adult Ache and Hadza men spend only a third of the day in food acquisition, preparation, and feeding"…

For prehistoric nomads hunting would definitely be a more reliable source of food. Think of winters, when there's little to gather but you can still hunt a mammoth or some other large prey. This way, you take advantage of the muscle/fat the animal built while eating stuff you can't eat. So, I could see prehistoric nomads being mostly carnivores for a whole season. Which would also leave enough evidence on their remai…

Hunting small game is reasonably reliable. Hunting primarily big game, as the study is suggests, is the textbook example of unreliable high risk, high reward strategies we teach undergrads about.

What modern human foragers often do is exploit a huge variety of strategies all at once. They're also highly opportunistic and social mechanisms are used to distribute the successes across a large number of people. For instance, if a bunch of Hadza hunters come across a beehive full of honey, they'll stop hunting and eat it. Such finds end up being a significant source of calories for the Hadza, but the study's argument is that this sort of omnivorousness is a recent innovation.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#113

Post by t0mbstone »

JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile:

Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers").

Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain.

Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally writhing on the ground while dry retching from the pain. I've never experienced anything else like it before.

Turns out, I had kidney stones.

One of the primary causes of kidney stones is too much oxalates in your diet. Guess what oxalates are found in? Practically every vegetable I had been eating for months.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#114

Post by Daho0n »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #91
Daho0n wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vegans and then there are non-vegans. Being a vegan and eating something non-vegan make you a non-vegan. Cows milk is not vegan.

...says one vegan. I ask others, I get a different answer. This is the typical "No True Scotsman" argument. Look it up.

Not it's not. Vegan is either or. People saying otherwise are inventing things. Look it up.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#115

Post by microtherion »

m000 wrote: post #97
microtherion wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be some rather dubious assumptions there, notably that hunting is a more efficient way of acquiring nutrition than gathering. I'm not a specialist in the field, but my understanding was the opposite. And sentences such as "[...] baboons [...] devote almost all their daylight hours to feeding [...] while adult Ache and Hadza men spend only a third of the day in food acquisition, preparation, and feeding"…

For prehistoric nomads hunting would definitely be a more reliable source of food. Think of winters, when there's little to gather but you can still hunt a mammoth or some other large prey. This way, you take advantage of the muscle/fat the animal built while eating stuff you can't eat. So, I could see prehistoric nomads being mostly carnivores for a whole season. Which would also leave enough evidence on their remai…

Those mammoths suggest the presence of rather substantial amounts of greens, unless they belonged to a rare variety of ketogenic mammoths (an ecosystem consisting of mammoths all the way down?).

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#116

Post by justsomeuser »

t0mbstone wrote: post #113
JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile: Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers"). Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain. Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally wr…

So you don't eat vegetables any more?

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#117

Post by hirundo »

atarian wrote: post #32
danr4 wrote: post #17

In 2019, age 30, I ate only red meat (and a little fish) for about 8 months. It was by far the peak of my physical condition. Better sleep, stronger workouts, no mid-day grogginess. Blood test results were as best as one could hope for, apart for the debatable "high cholesterol". Unfortunately a couple of trips abroad (damn Italy) and I got back to a more standard diet. Have put on 15kg since. I've been longing to re…

That seems so counterintuitive to what I've been told about a good diet. Any resources you recommend where one can learn more about this?

This book got me started. I'm six months in and doing great on it:

https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Code-Unlocking-Returning-An...

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#118

Post by t0mbstone »

justsomeuser wrote: post #116
t0mbstone wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to throw my own vegan diet anecdote onto the growing pile: Last year I went on a pure vegan diet for about 6 months (after watching the Netflix documentary "Game Changers"). Everything was going well (or so I thought) right up until I woke up one day with abdominal pain. Over the course of an hour, it went from feeling like it could be gas or constipation to being the worst pain I'd ever felt. I was literally wr…

So you don't eat vegetables any more?

I still eat veggies. They are just a side dish now instead of being the main course.

Nowadays I try to eat a more traditionally "balanced" diet. I eat a decent amount of meat and dairy and eggs in addition to grains, legumes, nuts, fruits, and vegetables. I then use basic portion control to control my caloric intake and my weight.

It's been almost a year now since I abandoned pure veganism and switched back to a "normal" diet and I haven't had any more occurrences of kidney stones (knock on wood).

TL;DR: One dimensional diets are dumb.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#119

Post by atarian »

danr4 wrote: post #51
atarian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems so counterintuitive to what I've been told about a good diet. Any resources you recommend where one can learn more about this?

I first heard about it on Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson episode and then Shawn Baker - I'd suggest to hear the latter as he is a an orthopedic surgeon, weight lifter, and is 52 years old. Kinda gives it more credit. The diet is pretty easy depending on how you want to approach. - it's only animal based food (meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese). I'd be careful with people who try to sell you something, search around on diff…

Thanks, I'll check those out. Sorry to see you get downvoted.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#120

Post by dennis_jeeves »

atarian wrote: post #32
danr4 wrote: post #17

In 2019, age 30, I ate only red meat (and a little fish) for about 8 months. It was by far the peak of my physical condition. Better sleep, stronger workouts, no mid-day grogginess. Blood test results were as best as one could hope for, apart for the debatable "high cholesterol". Unfortunately a couple of trips abroad (damn Italy) and I got back to a more standard diet. Have put on 15kg since. I've been longing to re…

That seems so counterintuitive to what I've been told about a good diet. Any resources you recommend where one can learn more about this?

One great resource:

https://www.mostly-fat.com/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fa...

Important tips here: pick meat cuts that are tasty (which necessarily will have a lot of fat, like the rib eye). Do not pick lean cuts ( gives some people digestion issues) , do not season except with salt. Seasonings interferes with one's taste buds to assess the quality of meat.

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