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The Deno Company

deno.com

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Re: The Deno Company

#111

Post by scaladev »

burlesona wrote: post #92
celeritascelery wrote: post #85

> Many are more familiar with the Chrome DevTools console than they are with a Unix command-line prompt. More familiar with WebSockets than BSD sockets, MDN than man pages. Bash and Zsh scripts calling into native code will never go away. But JavaScript and TypeScript scripts calling into WebAssembly code will be increasingly common. Many developers, we think, prefer web-first abstraction layers. Every time I read so…

They answered this at the end of the article: “The Deno company hopes to enable the millions of web programmers out there to maximally leverage their craft in other domains.” It takes time to learn an ecosystem, and when people know one ecosystem and not another, most people would rather do high skill, high value work in the ecosystem they know than start over as a noob in a new one. The only thing unique about the w…

> It just exists because JavaScript developers don’t want to learn something new.

Are you sure? I started building a desktop application recently. As much as I abhor Electron and refuse to touch anything built on top of it, there basically wasn't any other choice due to the absolutely massive amounts of libraries written for the web. I threw a couple of them in and it saved me at least 90% of work compared to what I would have to do if I'd chosen Qt (or anything else native). Would I rather spend a week and have something to show to my client, or roll up my sleeves and re-implement everything myself (which would take about half a year before I'd have anything working at all)?

(For the record, I didn't downvote you. I consider it a shitty practice to downvote somebody for their opinion, without even replying.)

Re: The Deno Company

#112

Post by pqb »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36

Woah. Clicking on this link crashes Firefox. Version 86 on Windows. I don't remember seeing FF crash in several years now. Anyone else is running into this?

> [...] Firefox. Version 86

Few days ago, there was new version released (87). In certain situations, when silent upgrade had been made during using the browser it displays an "Oops, something went wrong" notification with a button to refresh. If you will close and reopen the Firefox the problem will vanish. It is less kind of crash but more likely as problem to free/monkeypatch resources.

I have run into the same problem on Linux but I have quite complicated Firefox configuration with at least few extra profiles (about:profiles).

Re: The Deno Company

#113

Post by aenario »

hobofan wrote: post #37
gorjusborg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only dipped my toes in the water with Deno, but it solves a few pain points I've felt with Node. Direct deps via url vs npm as middleman, a standard library (thank goodness!), and single binary distribution. Types are great too, but these other things would be enough for me.

> a standard library (thank goodness!) Then what are all these modules, if not a standard library? https://nodejs.org/api

libuv bindings ?

Re: The Deno Company

#114

Post by burlesona »

kostarelo wrote: post #8

> Extending web programming beyond the browser is not a novel idea. Indeed, we have done that with moderate success in our “Node.js” project. But over a decade later, we find server-side JavaScript hopelessly fragmented, deeply tied to bad infrastructure, and irrevocably ruled by committees without the incentive to innovate. As the browser platform moves forward at a rapid pace, server-side JavaScript has stagnated.…

Right behind the giant understatement of calling Node a “modest success.”

Re: The Deno Company

#115

Post by glutamate »

eatonphil wrote: post #72
iends wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erlang is compiled to bytecode, right? So is it considered a scripting language?

I don't understand the connection being made between having a bytecode compiler and being a scripting language.

Java is definitely not a scripting language

Re: The Deno Company

#116

Post by dgellow »

davnicwil wrote: post #73

What I find most exciting here is: > Our infrastructure makes it possible to... create custom runtimes for different applications [like] Cloudflare Worker-style Serverless Functions Fascinated to see what happens here. The serverless / edge compute paradigm fits Javascript hand-in-glove philosophically, but until now it's always felt quite clunky to me. When I've tried it out, I've always been left thinking "but this…

Yep, that will be something to follow. It will be really interesting to see what kind of market emerges here by allowing new custom runtimes to compete, with specializations for a different niches and environments.

Re: The Deno Company

#117

Post by rglover »

This is cool and exciting to see. I've mostly watched Deno from the sidelines, only playing with code a little bit, but it's clear Ryan and co. are serious about applying the lessons learned from Node. Best wishes to him and the team.

Re: The Deno Company

#118

Post by dangoor »

nerdponx wrote: post #83
franciscop wrote: post #42

Nice to see! How do they plan to monetize? I either became blind or missed it somehow. The article does say how they DON'T plan on monetize: "Rest assured that Deno will remain MIT licensed. For Deno to grow and be maximally useful, it must remain permissively free. We don’t believe the “open core” business model is right for a programming platform like Deno." There are some hints though: "If you watch our conference…

This is probably a stupid question, but is AGPL/commercial dual-licensing a viable option for something like this? Instead of relying on goodwill donations & maybe assigning 1-2 devs from major corporations, just explicitly charge them money if they refuse to ship source code to end-users.

Many companies would just never touch an AGPL package, and while there are other languages out there with commercial licenses (e.g. Delphi), those are not nearly as mainstream as the open & freely available ones.

Deno is competing against Node.js, which is MIT-licensed. Deno is arguably better, but it would have to be _so much better_ to get people to even give it a second look if it was commercial.

Re: The Deno Company

#120

Post by burlesona »

scaladev wrote: post #111
burlesona wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They answered this at the end of the article: “The Deno company hopes to enable the millions of web programmers out there to maximally leverage their craft in other domains.” It takes time to learn an ecosystem, and when people know one ecosystem and not another, most people would rather do high skill, high value work in the ecosystem they know than start over as a noob in a new one. The only thing unique about the w…

> It just exists because JavaScript developers don’t want to learn something new. Are you sure? I started building a desktop application recently. As much as I abhor Electron and refuse to touch anything built on top of it, there basically wasn't any other choice due to the absolutely massive amounts of libraries written for the web. I threw a couple of them in and it saved me at least 90% of work compared to what I…

Yeah, and I meant that with a wink then wrote at lengthy justification for that thinking, lol. Oh well, I rephrased to take out the jest.

I don’t disagree with you about why people use Electron. There’s a positive feedback loop around ecosystem sizes. The bigger the platform the more devs use it the more tools they make the more libraries are made the more it’s the easiest way to do X the more applications are written for it the bigger the platform gets.

Anything you can offer to a large group of developers that lets them extend their existing high skill level to new domains where they would otherwise be novices is very likely to be adopted.

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