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We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

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Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#111

Post by danjac »

capableweb wrote: post #38
candiddevmike wrote: post #15

This was very cringey. A super contrived demo and bashing Heroku through a Twitter reference. Reads like someone is drunk/high and wanted to shitpost about a competitor. I would be appalled by this if I were GitLab's PR department!

Yeah, seems they are trying to deflect their posts like this with a " This blog post is Unfiltered" notice that apparently frees them from anything mentioned as the blog is "intended for user-generated content submitted by the GitLab team. The views and opinions represented in this blog are personal to the author of each respective blog post and do not represent the views or opinions of GitLab unless explicitly state…

Or an easy way for a company to get the credit for a popular post, and hang a contributor out to dry if it's poorly received. Do the work and properly vet and edit your posts, and insist your employees post their own opinions on other platforms on their own time.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#112

Post by rad_gruchalski »

boleary-gl wrote: post #49
fnomnom wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but isnt that what AWS does with elastic beanstalk? elastic beanstalk always seemed to me as a "heroku with more dials"

I think that lots of the clouds will have their own offering, but having an open source based offering across clouds is what we're going for. Also it's very early stages - but the goal would to be better than Beanstalk

As long as it is faster than gitlab itself, sure. Every time I go to the hosted gitlab, I cringe. I like the product but the whole thing is sooo slow. First, 5 seconds wasted to "check if my browser supports gitlab", then the lag on every click. Hopefully your heroku will have a better experience than your gitlab.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#113

Post by jrochkind1 »

toyg wrote: post #71
jrochkind1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually happened to an app I'm invovled with too. Turns out heroku started requiring SSL for postgres connections on "hobby" tier only last month. (It had already been required for "standard" and "professional"; and the blog post says they had been advertising the deprecation for a while, although I hadn't noticed either -- the thing about heroku is it makes it so easy to just ignore it mostly, that you can jus…

> lately I do notice more and more things where heroku doesn't seem to be "dotting all the i's" It feels basically frozen. The Salesforce acquisition seems to have been a Yahoo!-type deal for them, where they just keep things running as long as the checks come in and will sunset when enough people leave. Which is sad. Or at least this is my perception.

Yeah, I feel that. Although the salesforce acquisition was way back in 2010, I think heroku still had some innovation and progress after that for a few years. But not in a few years now.

The good news is that heroku started out so solid that it can last a while in this state still being a good product. But it doesn't seem great.

I still don't know of anything else as good as heroku for "we don't really have any ops expertise in-house, do it for us and make it Just Work". I doubt the OP is that. I really don't have time (or honestly interest) to learn kubernetes.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#114

Post by danjac »

giorgioz wrote: post #104

There is already a better Heroku and it's Vercel (previously Zeit) https://vercel.com/ I believe Vercel is the spiritual successor of Heroku. I guess Heroku got bought by Salesforce and the founders/visionaries left. Heroku should have moved to bill per seconds/milliseconds based on AWS Lambda functions like Vercel did later.

Isn't Vercel pretty much just for Jamstack? Not everyone wants or needs that so I'm not sure it's better.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#115

Post by jelling »

dubcanada wrote: post #10

People do not use Heroku because it takes 5 minutes to spin up a box. They use it because it's super easy. Click a button, bam deployed. Want to add a database, click what database you want, bam you got a database, environment variables set and a GUI (depending on what you pick). Want to scale up? Click a button, you're now scaled up. Want a entire review system with staging links and everything? Setup the review pro…

AWS may be the gold standard for hosting but I still recommended most startups start with Heroku for their hosting, especially since they add the code pipelines.

The amount of VC dollars I have seen wasted on re-inventing the wheel of hosting/devops is a textbook case of premature optimization.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#116

Post by sytse »

yoran wrote: post #95
capableweb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seems they are trying to deflect their posts like this with a " This blog post is Unfiltered" notice that apparently frees them from anything mentioned as the blog is "intended for user-generated content submitted by the GitLab team. The views and opinions represented in this blog are personal to the author of each respective blog post and do not represent the views or opinions of GitLab unless explicitly state…

Legally they may not be in trouble, their brand is still tarnished imo. My esteem for GitLab has diminished as a result of this terrible blog post.

It was a bad blog post, we're sorry. Also see the comment by the author https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26555617

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#117

Post by sdfhbdf »

fractionalhare wrote: post #23
askonomm wrote: post #2

I feel like Gitlab is going in a direction of AWS, except that instead of having separate products it just bundles everything in one. One massive bloatware that's scary to touch, no idea where features begin or end, or what is it even for in the end. Everything? I thought it was supposed to be Git hosting, but I'm not even sure anymore.

> Everything? I thought it was supposed to be Git hosting, but I'm not even sure anymore. They're losing to GitHub. While they advertise that they have 2/3 of the self-hosted git server market share, they just barely have a double digit share of the total VCS market, which is where the real enterprise money and value is. I don't have figures on hand, but I'd guess they have a single digit percentage of actual enterpr…

> They're losing to GitHub

In my experience their approach to pipelines and CI is a winner. In that regard GitHub seems to be playing catchup and the "checks" feel like second class citizens in GitHub while it feels really cohesive in GitLab.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#118

Post by runako »

fnomnom wrote: post #40
sytse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Heroku has the perfect dev environment, not much to improve there. We’re trying to make the perfect production environment. Most people end up hosting at a hyper cloud (edit: like AWS). We’re trying to make the app on a hyper cloud in production as easy as Heroku is in development. We’re still building that, it is t done by any means. And the article doesn’t do a good job of showing what we are trying to make…

but isnt that what AWS does with elastic beanstalk? elastic beanstalk always seemed to me as a "heroku with more dials"

Oh my goodness, no. Beanstalk is a very poor clone of Heroku.

Context: I have used Elastic Beanstalk in real production apps for years. For my Rails side project, figured I would use Beanstalk instead of Heroku so that I'm using the same platform (although I have also used Heroku in prod settings).

Quick summary is the AWS tutorial for launching their Rails sample app in Elastic Beanstalk doesn't work at all. I though maybe my Rails install was borked somehow, so I tried launching a sample app at Heroku. Worked on the first try.

Heroku really spends time making sure everything works out of the box, and that's what you're paying for.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#119

Post by sdfhbdf »

geerlingguy wrote: post #45

> Ended up in a Heroku blackbox for your stateful web app? GitLab introduces a better Heroku integrated into your DevSecOps workflow: The 5 minute production app. Are we sure this wasn't written by some sort of new AI bot GitLab is employing? So many keywords stuffed in those opening lines. The comparison in the article is incredibly naive, IMO; they are not being a better Heroku, this is just demonstrating something…

> Are we sure this wasn't written by some sort of new AI

I gotta admit I laughed out loud when I read it.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#120

Post by detaro »

sytse wrote: post #103
dubcanada wrote: post #10

People do not use Heroku because it takes 5 minutes to spin up a box. They use it because it's super easy. Click a button, bam deployed. Want to add a database, click what database you want, bam you got a database, environment variables set and a GUI (depending on what you pick). Want to scale up? Click a button, you're now scaled up. Want a entire review system with staging links and everything? Setup the review pro…

I fully agree, this should have been about it production app, not a development app which is already great on Heroku. Also see this post by the author https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26555617

What difference is the "production app" distinction supposed to make? Its not clear from neither the article nor the linked comment. If it's an attempt to suggest that Heroku isn't suitable for production use, that's going to need a lot of argument backing it up.
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