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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#111

Post by sfblah »

neogodless wrote: post #26
sidlls wrote: post #9

I always get a kick out of people who think they’re financially independent with such a small stash. Outside some regions with relatively extreme living conditions (e.g. undeveloped and underdeveloped countries), the amount he retired with was never going to be enough to sustain even minor shocks and last the rest of his life. He had a minor shock (breakup) and a major shock (health condition) and realized this error…

Even with the minor and major shocks in his life, he ended up with 20% more money than he started with. The main reason he wants more money now is that he wants to share it with his new partner, and enjoy some lifestyle inflation. So I don't think it makes sense to extrapolate "leanFIRE cannot sustain minor shocks" from his circumstances." It certainly cannot sustain a certain level of lifestyle inflation, or (more g…

The 20% gain is 100% a consequence of the Fed and the market mania. This experiment attempted in another 5-year span would have worked out totally differently.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#112

Post by kelnos »

ericmay wrote: post #13

To me the emphasis on the FIRE community should be on the FI part of the equation. For many people in many countries, there is no concept of "retirement". It seems so silly to me that people would go and say "I'll work really hard and do all this stuff for 40 years so I can sit around and do nothing for another 30 years". What's the point? It's unsustainable. It's like doing a crash diet - it may work for a minute, b…

> Living within your means over the course of 80 years instead of balls-to-the-wall for 30-40 and then a quick and silent death for 30 seems to be a better course of action and would lead to longer lifespan.

I think you have two things wrong here:

1) Most people don't plan to live "balls-to-the-wall" for 30-40 years before retiring. They work hard (maybe too hard!) so they can retire early. They don't live like kings and queens for that time; that would probably make it impossible to build that nest egg and actually retire. To do this right, you need to build enough wealth to maintain your lifestyle post-retirement. For most folks this means that their pre-retirement lifestyle won't be particularly extravagant.

2) Just because you retire, it doesn't mean you have a "silent death for 30" years. That's absurd, and plays into the whole "life is meaningless without work" idea, which I categorically reject. Maybe life has no meaning for you without work, but that's you, and not everyone. There's plenty to do in those last 30 years of life that will keep me fulfilled, happy, and busy, and none of it needs to have anything to do with drawing a paycheck.

"Retiring" doesn't mean not living, or even not "working". It just means that you get to do whatever you want without worrying about whether or not you're getting paid for it. Which is essentially what FI is as well, just with the added bit that you've decided to avoid gainful employment.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#113

Post by bolasanibk »

corry wrote: post #86
samvher wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is about to get a first child - what kind of low lows should I brace myself for?

Well, first let me say that being a parent is the best thing in my life (and there is a lot of very good stuff in my life), so don't over-index on what I'm about to say next. You'll be fine and better for it! You might have heard the quote "To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken." YMMV but the lowest of the low are the times when you feel the reality that yo…

> Every headline that right now seems like a "sad story" - a parent losing a child, a child losing a parent,

> kids in cages, a daughter and father who are estranged, etc -- becomes an absolutely wrenching sadness if

> you even FLIRT with the idea of "what if that happened to me/my child"? You develop sensitivities that you

> are surprised at. You realize you have inherited an impossible and awesome responsibility of providing for,

> protecting, loving little blank slates of humanity... in a chaotic and dangerous world.

This was something I was not prepared for when I had my son. I cannot watch media or news stories where kids suffer or get hurt.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#114

Post by TuringNYC »

jdavis703 wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially not in the USA when the least of a health issue can eat up your savings in a couple of short months unless you have extremely good health coverage, which only the rich (who don't actually need it ...) have.

Not sure what the definition of rich here is, but people in the 10% of income earners most definitely still need health insurance and suffer from illness. For example, my psych meds would be $1500 a month without insurance. Even on a software engineer salary, that’s quite a hit.

>> ...still need health insurance...without insurance..

I think the point is that even with health insurance you can be wiped out. I dont think any reasonable definition of FI/RE would suggest being without health insurance.

The thing is that in a small % of cases, even with health insurance, you get one bad examiner, one by-the-books administrator who denies coverage for something, and you're done for.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#115

Post by stocknoob »

vsareto wrote: post #77
ericmay wrote: post #13

To me the emphasis on the FIRE community should be on the FI part of the equation. For many people in many countries, there is no concept of "retirement". It seems so silly to me that people would go and say "I'll work really hard and do all this stuff for 40 years so I can sit around and do nothing for another 30 years". What's the point? It's unsustainable. It's like doing a crash diet - it may work for a minute, b…

A few people ITT seem to think FI people just do nothing all day. I'm kinda wondering if you folks know of anything but work.

ITT: "Why would I want the choice about when/if/where/how I work? I want my exact work specifications to be imposed on me, without any negotiating leverage."

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#117

Post by andreilys »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

Isn’t that the point of financial independence?

So that you could invest time into finding a way to spend your time that pays less (or nothing) but which you enjoy?

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#118

Post by resonantjacket5 »

eric_b wrote: post #46

I really struggled with the author's tone. It dripped of condescension towards those who live a "normal" lifestyle. I enjoy working. I find purpose and meaning it. I do not let it dominate my life, but without it I would feel incomplete. I run my own business now, and that is very satisfying - but even when I was a corporate consultant I found a lot of enjoyment from spending time with my coworkers, solving problems,…

tbf he does talk throughout the post about what he was missing out by not having a "normal" lifestyle.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#119

Post by TuringNYC »

sokoloff wrote: post #51
cashewchoo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTM options is one of those things where it works great until it doesn't and then when it doesn't it REALLY doesn't. This is almost literally how we ended up with the inverse volatility trade collapse in 2018. Look up "XIV blow up". Betting against volatility will * never* not be "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller". Retail investors should not touch options under any circumstances, anyway. They're hedging…

Selling OTM covered calls is not a trade that's going to blow up your account. The worst case is that you suffer a drawdown in your account (which is a risk of all investing). The second worst case is that you miss a massive, short-term rally.

>> Selling OTM covered calls is not a trade that's going to blow up your account. The worst case is that you suffer a drawdown in your account (which is a risk of all investing). The second worst case is that you miss a massive, short-term rally.

Depends on whether youre fully cash secured or not. If you are fully cash secured, you barely make $. If you're not, now you're leveraged and a steep draw-down can wipe you out.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#120

Post by eagsalazar2 »

dimmke wrote: post #102
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. But, and I think you aren't saying otherwise, this is also true of everyone who still has to work, while they are working. Your job is just the thing you have to do (if you are lucky you actually enjoy it). Bottom line, most people don't actually have a purpose or strong passions in their lives. Being retired young doesn't make that more or less true but at least you have more space to confront that void and just maybe find some purpose or passion. If you are totally time strapped with career, family, and other responsibilities, then you really really have no chance. OTOH maybe our outside judgement that these people are wasting their lives is misguided. Subjective reported happiness for retirees is much higher compared to the working world.
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