Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#111

Post by lamontcg » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #102

scarmig wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DKIM signatures on the emails were verified. Whatever the laptop's sketchy provenance, the actual content being published from it wasn't a forgery.

AFAIK, only a single email was verified this way, and it is innocuous, only suggesting that a Burisma executive met Joe Biden sometime through Hunter. https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim Graham notes upfront: "Remember that while the email is validated, the context isn't. It's possible this reflects a secret meeting to conspire with Vice President Biden. Or, it's possible the guy attended one of the many…

Yeah that's what happened with the "Climategate" e-mails as well. A bunch of scientists were being attacked for political reasons and their hacked, leaked e-mails showed a certain amount of us-vs-them bunker mentality. Go figure. That was spun into a narrative about how they were conspiring to manipulate public opinion using statements pulled out of context.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#112

Post by barbacoa » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #110

barbacoa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek3QIIFXYAcApkg?format=jpg&name=... It was pretty apparent Hunter Biden was engaging in foreign lobbying work. You can pay a lobbyist to influence politicians but paying a politician directly is bribery. The question is if giving money to a politician's son is bribery since they indirectly benefit. Then there is also the allegation that Joe Biden was taking a percentage of Hunter Biden's l…

The question is if giving money to a politician's son is bribery since they indirectly benefit. If that were true, every politician's close relatives would have to stay in some kind of economic suspended animation while they serve in office. But other sensible measures, like prohibiting a President or his children from maintaining control of a global business empire while he is in office, are probably warranted in li…

>If that were true, every politician's close relatives would have to stay in some kind of economic suspended animation while they serve in office.

The key is money in exchange for political favors.

While I'm not going to comment if Joe Biden's situation fits the definition of criminal bribery, it is very similar to the situation with South Korean President Park Geun-hye who went to prison for 20 years for bribery related to policy decisions that were made in exchange gifts given to a close friend.

One of Hunter Biden's business partners -- the one the "big guy" email was sent to -- has come out that Joe Biden was directly involved in Hunter's business and taking money from it. He even shared emails and text messages that the Bidens told him the keep Joe's involvement a secret for obvious reasons.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1671063/hunter-biden-texts-dont...

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#113

Post by raarts » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #90

mc32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is inserting “widespread” as a qualifier. It’s like saying, did you steal a million dollars? No, I didn’t steal a _million_ dollars! (leaving blank they stole ten thousand thousand). A member of the police force died. It’s uncertain he was killed. If you listened to the media it was an armed insurrection. In reality it was a bunch of idiots a half dozen of whom had weapons. If you believed the media hundreds…

I stand by what I said. The media reports are based on extensive first-hand evidence, coverage, social media. I do not need MSM to tell me that an insurrection was happening. I see it for myself. And here you are down-playing, ignoring facts, ignoring the other points I made that counter yours, and generally being mis-leading. I think you should refresh your history. Often it can be opportunistic armed goons that top…

You see it for yourself, emanating from the sources that comprise your bubble.

Which holds for everybody. And it's the diversity of those sources that determines how close your view matches the truth.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#114

Post by offby37years » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

jenkstom wrote: post #68

Wow. Just wow. I remember early cyberpunks talking about how the internet would enable infinite lies to spread and for the truth to be completely buried in the noise. And here we are. Now our entire reality has been taken over by people living in a fantasy world. No end in sight. Maybe they weren't nearly pessimistic enough.

Before the internet you could have two local newspapers in every town, each profitably reporting facts.

Then the internet came and commoditised facts. New facts are disseminated immediately across social media. Open Google News and you can find thousands of articles covering the same event.

Suddenly, just reporting facts was no longer a viable business. Being a newspaper of record was no longer economically viable. Only the news media that shifted to reporting opinions, outrage, and entertainment survived.

NYT was fading into irrelevance up until mid-2016, it is now more relevant than ever: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NYT/

This resurgence was driven by a conscious shift to peddle tribal propaganda: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great...

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#115

Post by voltguy » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #105

vannevar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, only a single email was verified this way, and it is innocuous, only suggesting that a Burisma executive met Joe Biden sometime through Hunter. https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim Graham notes upfront: "Remember that while the email is validated, the context isn't. It's possible this reflects a secret meeting to conspire with Vice President Biden. Or, it's possible the guy attended one of the many…

I agree: the email reads to me as entirely innocuous. The rest of the world doesn't seem to agree, though. Right-leaning media proclaimed it was a smoking gun that would destroy Biden's candidacy. But Left-leaning media wasn't any better: to the extent it covered it at all, it was that the email was part of a sophisticated forgery and disinformation campaign by Russian state security services intended to cement Putin…

We live in a world of tribal truths. The Hunter Biden scandal is to the left what 2020 voter fraud was to the right.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#116

Post by jl2718 » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #105

vannevar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, only a single email was verified this way, and it is innocuous, only suggesting that a Burisma executive met Joe Biden sometime through Hunter. https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim Graham notes upfront: "Remember that while the email is validated, the context isn't. It's possible this reflects a secret meeting to conspire with Vice President Biden. Or, it's possible the guy attended one of the many…

I agree: the email reads to me as entirely innocuous. The rest of the world doesn't seem to agree, though. Right-leaning media proclaimed it was a smoking gun that would destroy Biden's candidacy. But Left-leaning media wasn't any better: to the extent it covered it at all, it was that the email was part of a sophisticated forgery and disinformation campaign by Russian state security services intended to cement Putin…

Seems like both sides are going wild with claims that will never be proven. Almost like they’re both colluding to confuse, divide, and infuriate.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#117

Post by monkeydreams » Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #106

jenkstom wrote: post #68

Wow. Just wow. I remember early cyberpunks talking about how the internet would enable infinite lies to spread and for the truth to be completely buried in the noise. And here we are. Now our entire reality has been taken over by people living in a fantasy world. No end in sight. Maybe they weren't nearly pessimistic enough.

I find it odd when people deny the extremely obvious signs that foreign allies are buying influence in DC. I'm sure that happens on both sides of the aisle. Hunter Biden had zero relevant experience to be a member of the board to a Ukrainian oil company during a conflict with Russia that had huge oil assets at risk. It seems obvious to me that they paid him to have access to his father (then VP to Obama). The same wa…

> I find it odd when people deny the extremely obvious signs that foreign allies are buying influence in DC. I'm sure that happens on both sides of the aisle.

That corruption exists on both sides - this is understood by pretty much everyone who isn't wildly partisan. That there is both legal (meaning that it does break specific laws but is instead privilege accessible by those in circles of power) and illegal corruption, likewise.

In the case of Hunter Biden, he is just reaping the benefits of being close to power. This isn't illegal - ex-presidents go on the talk circuit to tutor people in how to handle specific situations or to discuss events they have encountered. One would think that Hunter Biden would have received a masterclass in power politics through his father having been VP for 8 years. Her certainly would have met a lot of people over the years who could help him in the real world. This is not illegal, this is just one of the privileges of privilege.

Privilege is human nature. There is no mystery club - you are just either inside the tent or outside the tent. This does not mean we should not break it down, or tear it up, but it is also not illegal to hang out with people who are like you and who get you.

The problem with Greenwald's pieces are that he conflates this with obvious, illegal corruption. He claims it to be illegal - which is is not - and conflates it with actual corruption... but only on one side of politics. He seems to see himself as a maverick, a lone-wolf, but then whines that no one is there to support him, and all the legitimate papers decry or ignore him.

Greenwald is either unwell (and who isn't these days) or is trying to wedge himself into the role of the "reasonable" right-wing partisan. If it is the first, I hope he recovers, if the second, I hope he goes down in flames. The world needs fewer partisans.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#118

Post by refurb » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

Blahah wrote: post #67

refurb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry? Specific content of the laptop was released, the Biden team was asked if it was authentic and the answer was “no comment”. Why would they do that if it was fake news?

What a strange take. If someone made up a story about me and then someone else asked if it was true, I'd tell them to get lost, not validate the ridiculous attempt at shaping a narrative by engaging with it. It's very very common to "no comment" every false story, because engaging (even with a denial) creates legitimacy for the falsehood.

No. This is not a reasonable approach whatsoever and is not what is typically done.

If someone says “are these emails real?” you say “no”. Case closed.

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#119

Post by jerkstate » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

monkeydreams wrote: post #117

koheripbal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd when people deny the extremely obvious signs that foreign allies are buying influence in DC. I'm sure that happens on both sides of the aisle. Hunter Biden had zero relevant experience to be a member of the board to a Ukrainian oil company during a conflict with Russia that had huge oil assets at risk. It seems obvious to me that they paid him to have access to his father (then VP to Obama). The same wa…

> I find it odd when people deny the extremely obvious signs that foreign allies are buying influence in DC. I'm sure that happens on both sides of the aisle. That corruption exists on both sides - this is understood by pretty much everyone who isn't wildly partisan. That there is both legal (meaning that it does break specific laws but is instead privilege accessible by those in circles of power) and illegal corrupt…

>anyone who disagrees with my worldview is mentally ill

>the world needs fewer partisans

Re: Greenwald: Yesterday Journalists Spread a Significant Lie All over Twitter

#120

Post by mc32 » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

smartician wrote: post #94

mc32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is inserting “widespread” as a qualifier. It’s like saying, did you steal a million dollars? No, I didn’t steal a _million_ dollars! (leaving blank they stole ten thousand thousand). A member of the police force died. It’s uncertain he was killed. If you listened to the media it was an armed insurrection. In reality it was a bunch of idiots a half dozen of whom had weapons. If you believed the media hundreds…

It's almost comical how you go from "it doesn't matter what the scale of the irregularities is, fraud is fraud" to "you have to qualify the scale of the insurrection, only a few were armed" in the same post. If this is a sarcastic post, well done!

No, it illustrated the media's "concern". They exaggerate on one side and minimize on the other to peddle a narrative.

We know fraud happens. People go to jail over it every year. It's not a lie. So to cover that, they qualify it as "widespread" Ok.

The Capitol. On the one hand, The CHAZ and Portland is inconsequential where business get looted, we have fires and people were murdered (not just happened to die) and it's yeah, protesters will protest... When it comes to the Capitol, oh, the interrupted congress!!! I mean, like congress has never been interrupted before. And then they make it out to be a full blown rebellion. Yes, you had thugs and goons, but you're deluded if you think that's how coups happen.