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Wayland in 2021

shibumi.dev

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Re: Wayland in 2021

#111

Post by sergeykish »

sprash wrote: post #102
sergeykish wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would risk stability? And what is the issue with forking? ffmpeg/libav, openssl/libressl managed fine. No fork is the symptom.

The other forks you are mentioning are a completely different problem because there were inherent philosophical differences among developers. X11 just needs "a release" so that package maintainers and distros can push updates. If you fork it you only make things worse.

Just needs a release that could contain bugs, could contain exploits. And current maintainers are not going to risk? I'm typing on X11 system, and it works, proving previous maintainers got it right. I am fine if active developers make a fork, prove its worth, some distributions adopting it, finally fork merged into base with new leadership.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#112

Post by rnhmjoj »

sergeykish wrote: post #108
rnhmjoj wrote: post #84

I think Wayland, and the modern desktop in general too, has forgot about a few good ideas that the original X system had. I will miss them once Wayland has taken over: - A unified way to change applications settings. All old X apps used to read the X resources database (xrdb): you could set a global color scheme, fonts, window geometry and what not, all in one place using a simple but powerful text format. - The simp…

- I've never seen xrdb used outside of terminal configuration - You have to link against X11, dwl (dwm for Wayland) implemented in 2500 LOC [1] Plan 9 /dev/draw is simpler yet, somehow it was not reason against X11. [1] https://github.com/djpohly/dwl

All the old X apps used xrdb, to some degree. I think of xclock, xbiff, xditview, xcalc, bitmap, etc.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#113

Post by cranium »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #25
c-c-c-c-c wrote: post #15

Not a single screenshot

Of what would you possibly want a screenshot here? It is about the under the hood plumbing so take any screenshot from the last years, copy it and write "this is what it looks like under wayland".

I like to see what other people have crafted for their own usage. Sometimes, I find a clever use of monitor real estate that would make my life easier.

I adopted most of my tools by looking at other people setups and customizing them to my use case.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#114

Post by ubercow13 »

vetinari wrote: post #38
freeone3000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For compute as well? Maybe once ROCm is actually supported by their newest cards, but this two-year lag on compute support does not inspire confidence. Neither Navi nor Big Navi are supported -- the last card with ROCm support is Vega .

For compute, you don't need the desktop, so the Wayland vs X11 debate is moot.

I dunno... Blender, video editing, etc. usually require a desktop.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#115

Post by bombcar »

sprash wrote: post #70
scaladev wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a happy Wayland user, and have been for a long time. There are many more out there. You don't often hear us because we don't spend every waking hour shitting on Xorg and praising Wayland for how good it is (maybe we should?) >I wonder if it will ever reach the adoption level of x11 It will, considering that Xorg is effectively no longer maintained and its developers have switched to working on Wayland protocols…

What is the process to become a release manager for X11 without forking it? I assume you can't just walk in there and say "I'll do that".

You fork it and your fork becomes the mainly used one is how it normally happens.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#116

Post by rnhmjoj »

nialv7 wrote: post #106
rnhmjoj wrote: post #84

I think Wayland, and the modern desktop in general too, has forgot about a few good ideas that the original X system had. I will miss them once Wayland has taken over: - A unified way to change applications settings. All old X apps used to read the X resources database (xrdb): you could set a global color scheme, fonts, window geometry and what not, all in one place using a simple but powerful text format. - The simp…

> A unified way to change applications settings. This is not true anymore even on X. Also, if you use GNOME or KDE, both of them has unified settings > because the X server takes care of most of the stuff. ... , unless using a big library like wl_roots. So you are fine with X server takes care of most of the stuff, but not fine with wl_roots do the same thing? > A base graphics API based on drawing primitives like th…

> This is not true anymore even on X. Also, if you use GNOME or KDE, both of them has unified settings

That's why I said Wayland and the modern desktop in general.

> So you are fine with X server takes care of most of the stuff, but not fine with wl_roots do the same thing?

You're kind of right: conceptually it's not much different, except that a wm is not a full-fledged server, but simply a client talking to the X server. If I'm sloppy and my wm dies, it's not going to take down the whole desktop with it, contrary to a Wayland compositor.

> A base graphics API based on drawing primitives like the original X, SVG or Cairo, rather than just bitmaps.

Of course, but the rendering happens on the client (with client-side fonts, images, etc.) instead of the server, which makes the protocol use a lot of bandwidth.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#117

Post by bombcar »

411111111111111 wrote: post #91
sz4kerto wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows handles it perfectly (anecdotal). Not sure what do you mean by freaking out.

Probably how the scaling is off while you drag windows from/to hidpi displays. The scaling is only adjusted once the pointer moves to the other display. At least that's how it was for me when I used a high dpi display (160 dpi) 2 yrs ago. (I switched back to 90dpi at some point, so they might have improved it by now)

Mac OS X handles this by rendering everything at some insane resolution and the scaling just before displaying

Re: Wayland in 2021

#118

Post by brmgb »

rnhmjoj wrote: post #112
sergeykish wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I've never seen xrdb used outside of terminal configuration - You have to link against X11, dwl (dwm for Wayland) implemented in 2500 LOC [1] Plan 9 /dev/draw is simpler yet, somehow it was not reason against X11. [1] https://github.com/djpohly/dwl

All the old X apps used xrdb, to some degree. I think of xclock, xbiff, xditview, xcalc, bitmap, etc.

Everyone stopped using xrdb more than twenty years ago, same things for drawing primitives.

I understand the wish some seems to have for things to never change. It's probably very comforting but things have to move with their time or they will be left behind.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#119

Post by vetinari »

ubercow13 wrote: post #114
vetinari wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For compute, you don't need the desktop, so the Wayland vs X11 debate is moot.

I dunno... Blender, video editing, etc. usually require a desktop.

That's not what it is mostly used for, i.e. ML-like workloads.

OpenCL (that's what Blender, DaVinci Resolve, etc use for their acceleration) is a layer above ROCm, and it runs. Not very nicely, but it does and is supposed to receive more attention in future.

Also, you can still use one gpu for desktop and other for compute.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#120

Post by xrd »

solarkraft wrote: post #30
xrd wrote: post #2

The author uses Pipewire with WebRTC in Chrome, very cool. Pipewire is showing up all over the place. I've been reading a little about it, but I finally got a comfortable setup of jackd and pulseaudio and am worried it might interfere with my stable setup. Am I being paranoid?

Yes. I currently run it besides Pulse for screen sharing and there are no issues. I haven't replaced Pulse yet because it didn't work right away, but plan to try again eventually because Pipewire supports HFP, the less terrible Bluetooth headset profile.

Bluetooth support alone would be worthy of the pain of switching. Thank you.
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