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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#111

Post by cobraetor »

sriku wrote: post #45

From a personal perspective (Indian here), it feels odd that this would make news. I've been a fairly good "performer" at high school and have always had a hard time getting the better of my girl classmates. The acad stuff just seemed too easy for them. They'd remember and recall things so well and that would make me curse under my breath. Their language and general maturity was also much better that I could hope for…

Hacker News has a progressive Silicon Valley bias, where Critical Race Theory provides a religious explanation ("systemic bias") for under-representation of women in tech.

Data from other countries are considered "news" because they invalidate our neoracist beliefs.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#112

Post by iagovar »

farias0 wrote: post #69
spaniard89277 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Babies. Really, being a mother is what skews most stats about women on money issues. There has been policymaking about this in a bunch of european countries, and if they are released from financial constrains (handouts, public housing, whatever) they seem to double down on it. Let's face it, working, for most people, is something you do out of necessity. Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviou…

I'm sorry but why are you so sure they're trying to avoid work? From my experience most women would love to have careers and be financially independent and successful. But babies indeed make it a lot harder -- both from a time/energy perspective and from a discrimination perspective.

I'm too lazy to look for literature (sorry), but I remember studying it, and later read some paper about it.

Anyway, whatever is the reason, they do take the tradeoff.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#113

Post by aviraldg »

throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

I don't agree with the rest of your comment (my school had a pretty even mix of male and female teachers), but anecdotally the primary difference between boys and girls was exactly what you mentioned: the former were more likely to skip classes, study things that were not in the syllabus (which helps sometimes), not maintain notes as well, etc. whereas the latter would typically follow the syllabus, teachers' instructions etc. more closely and maintain very thorough notes.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#114

Post by swebs »

Kluny wrote: post #66
spaniard89277 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Babies. Really, being a mother is what skews most stats about women on money issues. There has been policymaking about this in a bunch of european countries, and if they are released from financial constrains (handouts, public housing, whatever) they seem to double down on it. Let's face it, working, for most people, is something you do out of necessity. Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviou…

> Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviour of men about work, when they have a socially aceptable and now economical venue to avoid it. Baby raising is quite important work. I would argue that raising the next generation of workers, taxpayer, customers and pension fund contributors is the most important work of all.

Sure, but that's something most humans naturally want to do, even if they have no financial incentive. Most people don't like having to go to the office 8 hours a day, and very few probably would if money wasn't in the equation.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#115

Post by hc-taway »

LeegleechN wrote: post #10
endisneigh wrote: post #2

How is it possible that girls perform better academically (in 2015) yet are under represented in the top tier of jobs? Either women have no interest in money, academic skills have no bearing in getting high paying jobs, or discrimination is more prevalent then you’d think. I suppose all three could be true.

Girls get higher grades (perhaps due to higher conscientiousness), but do not do better in standardized tests.

My graduating class was remarked on through multiple schools as an exceptionally smart class. We had lots of very bright boys and girls. Maybe our class was unusual in other ways so this isn't part of a broader trend or tendency, but practically all the smart girls did all their homework and maintained a 3.5GPA or higher (most more like 3.8+), while probably half or more of the smart boys skipped lots of it and pulled Cs and Bs (with the occasional A in classes that had little homework). Meanwhile, those same boys who skipped much of their homework scored in the top percentile or two when it came time for ACTs and SATs and achieved excellent marks on annual state testing (not that the latter matters whatsoever for students), were often in gifted programs or active on "smart kid" extracurriculars, et c.

So those boys "did poorly in school" (which, to be sure, wasn't a great thing for e.g. college admissions above high-tier state schools) but that didn't give the full picture.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#116

Post by [deleted] »

farias0 wrote: post #69
spaniard89277 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Babies. Really, being a mother is what skews most stats about women on money issues. There has been policymaking about this in a bunch of european countries, and if they are released from financial constrains (handouts, public housing, whatever) they seem to double down on it. Let's face it, working, for most people, is something you do out of necessity. Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviou…

I'm sorry but why are you so sure they're trying to avoid work? From my experience most women would love to have careers and be financially independent and successful. But babies indeed make it a lot harder -- both from a time/energy perspective and from a discrimination perspective.

[deleted]

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#117

Post by visarga »

endisneigh wrote: post #101
throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

I've seen this take a few times and I don't really buy it. How exactly is school setup in a way that's more suitable for women compared to men? Everything you've stated (following rules and instructions, etc.) also applies in the workplace, so if you were correct you would the same sort of discrepancy in the workforce.

The difference in teaching style is putting accent on cooperation vs competition.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#118

Post by dekhn »

rajin444 wrote: post #60
dekhn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many subfields of biology, women have achieved numerical parity at all levels (IE, there are roughly 50% women in entry and leadership positions). It seems like some highly quantitative fields which have traditionally been male-dominated (CS, physics) may very well be practicing some sort of entry discrimination. It's unclear what the full set of contributing factors are.

How do you know 50% is the correct amount of women at all levels?

I didn't mean to imply that at all, although it does seem like the first reasonable target: all job categories, except for ones that require people to be a specific gender for some reason, should have participation roughly proportional to the proportion of that gender (or other attribute) in society.

I'm not certain that's the right goal, but what I said above was working a model where 50% women participation seemed like the expected amount.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#120

Post by iagovar »

jhasse wrote: post #102
iagovar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but you ain't making the big bucks. Even then, they seem to find it rewarding enough. If I was woman and I decided to have baby, I'd probably be either very stressed with my current job, or looking for something part time. Now imagine if I live in Sweden or the like where the state hands out money for raising children.

wait, there are countries where the state does NOT hand out money for raising children?

Yeah, probably most? IDK, I don't have the stats at hand, but in plenty of places you're alone agains't what it comes to you, no matter your gender.

The personal and societal reasoning about parenthood changes, but they still do have babies, despite being on their own. For many people, children is their retirement plan.

Anyway, it's not the same to have a nice monthly stipend than a small cheque far in between. Spain, for example, is considerably worse financially-wise for raising a kid than countries more up north. Not only because the country job market is shit (which is important even if you don't work, because your partner has to bring money home), but because the state really doesn't do much about it.

Now imagine living in a place where there isn't really a functional state to look for.

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