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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#111

Post by ILikeBikes »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #34
ILikeBikes wrote: post #24

[flagged]

Not sure if it is helpful to reduce every issue to a one-dimensional scale of capitalism/socialism. Particularly this specific issue is about privacy culture, corruptability of big tech, government and use of technologies, surveillance, etc... There are so many more societal and just plain epistemological axis than just socialism/capitalism.

And the results are pretty similar to the 2018 vote on cancelling their public broadcaster, which also highlighted questions of corruptibility of big companies, but was not around privacy, technology, or surveillance.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/vote-march-4--2018_att...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#112

Post by MikeUt »

emteycz wrote: post #64
MikeUt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the US that pushed for and did (is doing?) most of the bombing, and Europe that got hit with refugees. But even if it were the same country, it's not the same people - the wars were pushed from the top [1], the resistance to immigrants from the bottom ("populism"). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/bush-a...

You really need to update your knowledge of history. Look at Belgian, French, Dutch and British colonial empires. Especially the Belgian one and its brutality might interest you. And the British one was active in Middle East waaaay before America.

It's the colonial empires that caused the refugee crisis? I thought it was the much more recent bombings. But if it was the colonial empires, how come Turkey faced no refugee crisis from their colonies in south-eastern Europe [1,2]? How come the refugee crisis was now, and not at the height of those colonial empires you blame?

You see colonialism when it suits you, and are blind to it when it doesn't.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Thracian_Bu...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#113

Post by dunefox »

ketzu wrote: post #89
dunefox wrote: post #39

Meanwhile in Germany: "Hey, wouldn't it be so swell if people needed to provide their ID when signing up for email accounts and instant messengers?"

It's currently only a request by the ministry of interior, not actually in the discussed law, isn't it? It's not like switzerland politics didn't propose the thing that's been voted out, either.

Yes, it's just a request but it's quite a worrying trend that it's okay to even have a politician propose this - especially with the Stasi not long ago...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#114

Post by edoceo »

RedShift1 wrote: post #102
ncphil wrote: post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

Belgium has been doing digital identities for years now, we had our first identity cards with chip and digital signature I think 15 years ago? I frequently use it to sign documents and login to some government stuff. So if Belgium, which didn't have a government 3 out of the last 10 years, can do it, surely Switzerland can do it too.

And Estonia too!

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#115

Post by zo1 »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are also incredibly xenophobic The Swiss are xenophobic? Eh? They welcome people from all over the world to come together to work towards peace and humanitarianism in their country. They host the only truly international humanitarian organisation in the world. They helped build many of the institutions that try to reduce conflict. Calling them xenophobic is bizarre.

>Calling them xenophobic is bizarre. You don't think the referendums on banning minarets and burqas are... Xenophobic in any form?

Xenophobia is a loaded term. There could be any number of reasons why they're voting against those things. And so what if they dislike certain foreign cultures? It's their country, and they can accept who they want, or not.

Or is Democracy suddenly not okay if the will of the people is misaligned with the "greater" society's views? Which, I would also argue, isn't conclusively in the camp that "xenophobia = bad". If anything, it's held by a minority of countries, and even then, not shared by all in those countries. But of course, xenophobia is a loaded term, so we could be talking about completely different things that fall under that umbrella.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#116

Post by DetroitThrow »

chrisseaton wrote: post #109
DetroitThrow wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Calling them xenophobic is bizarre. You don't think the referendums on banning minarets and burqas are... Xenophobic in any form?

Look at their impact on world peace over the centuries rather than their opinions on architecture.

You didn't answer my question, and those aren't opinion polls, the difference between them being whether they are binding.

You don't think those constitutional referendums which ban those historically Muslim traditions could be interpreted as xenophobic?

You don't seem intent on actually answering my question or even directly addressing it, so I assume you are just gaslighting in bad faith. Good luck.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#117

Post by akvadrako »

buzzert wrote: post #63
akvadrako wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably the US has no right to privacy, except a very vague implied right which as far as I know has only been invoked in the context of abortion.

4th amendment to the constitution? > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Actually Roe vs Wade implied the right to privacy from the 14th amendment:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The alternative "right to privacy" has been found by other cases in the generic 9th amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#118

Post by mcny »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #103
ncphil wrote: post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

> six months I think you may underestimate the system needed. Identity management is the tip of the iceberg: this needs to tie into any future digital currency, income taxes, property ownership, government benefits, and who knows what else. Any off-the-shelf product will need customization. I’m not saying it can’t be done.... it SHOULD be done. But not in 6 months.

>> six months

> Identity management is the tip of the iceberg: this needs to tie into any future digital currency, income taxes, property ownership, government benefits, and who knows what else.

I'll put my shoe on my head if you can find me a private company that can do this in six months. Previously on HN: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs (technologyreview.com)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25975110

1167 points by donsupreme 35 days ago

664 comments

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#119

Post by chrisseaton »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #116
chrisseaton wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at their impact on world peace over the centuries rather than their opinions on architecture.

You didn't answer my question, and those aren't opinion polls, the difference between them being whether they are binding. You don't think those constitutional referendums which ban those historically Muslim traditions could be interpreted as xenophobic? You don't seem intent on actually answering my question or even directly addressing it, so I assume you are just gaslighting in bad faith. Good luck.

> those aren't opinion polls

What do you think a referendum is, if not a poll of the population's opinion on something?

My answer to your question is to look at their actual positive impact all around the world, including for Islamic countries, not their opinions on architecture or dress.

I literally don't think there's a more peaceful, welcoming, open-to-others' cultures anywhere in the world than the Swiss. If you think they're xenophobic then everyone else is 10x more xenophobic.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#120

Post by fermienrico »

max_ wrote: post #20
bondarchuk wrote: post #5

Almost every politician wants more power over citizens. That is why a binding popular referendum is necessary in cases like these. Congrats to the Swiss people, I am a little bit jealous.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

Just keep in mind, Switzerland has the population the size of SF Bay area for context.
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