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Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unethical to have kids? I don't follow.

That was my interpretation. There are some antinatalists out there.

Can I just say we should really stop using these 'turf' labels, the flat-earthers, the anti-vaxxers, now this 'antinatilist' label.

It makes it seem like a binomial thing, you are either in my group or in the other. Discussion stops being about the ideas and more adversarial, focused on taking sides.

Also it creates a group identity which in my opinion makes it harder for people to change their minds based on discussion or new info.

If my aunt tells me vaccines are bad I might trust her. But if there is whole group of 'anti-vaxxer' people who make me feel good about myself then I suppose I am now an anti-vaxxer and that becomes an identity more so than an opinion which would be more fluid and mutable.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#112
post #43

The only logical answer here is youth. The younger you are the more fertile you are. This is true for both men and women, but more true for women. If you want children at some point in life then prioritize children first and early. I know, this puts your ambitious career on hold for a while and start ups require huge ambition. Still, start up opportunities will not be hyper critically different in the future than the…

Adoption is another logical answer that can be very rewarding. All of us in the family I grew up in were adopted as infants. It's more expensive than birthing your own children but I imagine parents that left their fertile years focused on a career would be able to afford adoption.

[deleted]

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely unethical to have kids and like another commenter has said brings a great disadvantage economically. I would suggest to anyone to not follow your advice. edit: I won't be further commenting on the topic because the same people asking everyone "when are you going to have kids like me?" are just going to downvote. Yes, I rather see an end to humankind because that ends suffering. Less suffering in a uni…

> brings a great disadvantage economically yeah but you forgot about my platinum, enterprise-grade DNA. really good for the economy as a whole. Other people are going to have kids, their kids will encounter hardships and need problem solvers among the pack. Its unethical to deprive their posterity of my web-scale® DNA.

This could work as Tinder bio. It’s unethical to deprive future generations of my DNA.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#114
Feminism did a lot to stigmatize motherhood. "Stay at home mom" became a term of disparagement. You're basically a dumb loser and a miserable failure if you aren't a careerist woman (which is hilarious because such moms are typically much happier than those forced to earn wages or slave away in some toxic corporate environment). I think many more women would prefer to raise their children (which, btw, is a full time job and much more important than some job and for which jobs primarily exist in the first place) instead of pushing them onto some stranger who is payed to do their job for them and then go to work. And frankly, most jobs aren't something people would miss. Feminism of this kind is and always has been an upper middle phenomenon. There is little consideration for low income earners. You think most women are just dying to be wage earners? They do it because they have to. Low income mothers have always been working women, out of necessity, not some weird sense of ambition and needing to prove something. It's the middle and upper class mothers who could afford the privilege of staying at home. (Well, until now when even the upper middle class needs two income earners just to buy a house.)

Before someone possessed by the Zeitgeist clicks that downvote button, I will add that this isn't to say women should be banned from anything. You want a career, that's your business. Also, consider that besides raising children, there is plenty to do around the community that's probably more rewarding than a full blown career (even part time is stuff). However, I am saying that the social and cultural pressure, the NECESSITY, to be a careerist, and this means at the expense of your family which is sort of an afterthought, should be ridiculed and abolished. Girls should not be taught that their self-worth and happiness are to be found in a career. No one should. In this case it's making women miserable. Maybe as people begin to sacrifice some material comforts for the sake of a healthy family life, the market will begin to shift. After all, if you don't have that income rolling in any more and you're not keeping up with the Jones' likes some zombie, then the market will need to respond in turn.

(Also, please, no IVF. IVF is gravely immoral, especially given that you typically have to fertilize multiple eggs which are then are discarded or remain frozen.)

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#115
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice is likely economically bad though. Capital now is better than capital later. I would think money made early and saved by not having children and invested will end up being much more then what will be spent on a fertility clinic later.

It's almost as if human social norms solved this dilemma by division of labor: men bear the brunt of earning capital, while women are freed up to have and raise children. The women's "empowerment" movement in this context can be seen as a cynical ploy by capital to convince women their "power" is tied to earning wages and having a career instead of having a family and they must pursue economic independence over over…

They also promote careerism for men, a notion that doesn't ever seem to come into question. It's true that only women can gestate and breast feed, but after that fatherhood and motherhood are very similar callings. Men could opt out of the capitalist summons to the labor supply just as easily as women, and it shouldn't have to fall entirely on women to choose between "careerism" and "motherhood".

If we shifted the norms to allow that, women would be able to make their decisions freely and fairly, rather than just accepting that the lion's share of of parenting should be up to them. Rhetoric that shifts solely to ending careerism for women, but not for men, does indeed disempower women.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#116
I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frowned upon by plenty of people these days. I don't think that stigma is healthy. Why do women have to emulate men to be valuable?

Couple that with the fact that depression is most prevalent among childless women in their 40s, it’s like we’re fighting nature to create a perfect 3rd wave utopia. Of course women should follow their heart and we should build a society that allows them to do so on equal terms, but we should not discourage homemaking and stigmatize people who want to raise children.

And then there’s the practical side of things for which I’ve not been able to come to a good solution: In order to have a society of power career couples, someone has to raise their kids. As a couple that means you have to find someone who makes at most the same as you make, but probably less, to be your nanny (otherwise it would make more sense financially to just do it yourself). I don't see how that’s a sustainable narrative unless we are holding out for technology to fill that need.

Me? I would be a stay at home dad in a heartbeat. I love cooking and homemaking and being there for children. But practically in my relationship that doesn't make sense so I’m obligated to work my days away in order to provide for my family. I think there’s this idea that all men love career life because it pays the bills. In reality it’s far from a pipe dream existence.

Point is life is about making sacrifices in order to find happiness. If you sacrifice your youth and fertility for a shot at big riches, ultimately thats your choice. I just wish as a society we were more honest about reality and weren’t so dismissive of people who choose to raise children. That is where I see the path start to turn destructive.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#117
post #98

Facebook and Apple will pay to freeze your eggs as an employee benefit, is that right?

Am I the only one to find this dystopian? Society should adapt to humans and not the other way around.

I agree. The implicit messaging is: "If you care about your career, then you should freeze your eggs. We'll pay for it, so no excuses." It's like they're admitting to the fact that pregnant women will be discriminated against professionally.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#118

The only logical answer here is youth. The younger you are the more fertile you are. This is true for both men and women, but more true for women. If you want children at some point in life then prioritize children first and early. I know, this puts your ambitious career on hold for a while and start ups require huge ambition. Still, start up opportunities will not be hyper critically different in the future than the…

I feel like part of the problem is the obsession in media and social circles with young success. I see lists like Forbes 30 under 30, 40 under 40, and the celebration of young billionaires who are worshipped and held up as the example of what high performers should strive to be, and its quite unhealthy. I wish there were more stories about people who found success in their 40's, 50's and beyond, especially the ones w…

Yeah, but those people are the one-in-100-million types.

Most people have lack-luster careers in their 20s, which pick up in their 30s and peak in their 40s-50s. It makes a lot of sense for the average person to prioritize family building in their early 20s so that the kids are more self-sufficient right at the time where your career is taking off.

Plus, if your blessed enough to have parents who can help out, having babies when your parents are in their 40s-50s is substantially better than when they are 60+. My parents (50s) do really well at caring for their grandkids while my in-laws (60s) actually aren't capable of being alone with their grandkids, aunts or uncles "come to visit" anytime they watch the kids.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely unethical to have kids and like another commenter has said brings a great disadvantage economically. I would suggest to anyone to not follow your advice. edit: I won't be further commenting on the topic because the same people asking everyone "when are you going to have kids like me?" are just going to downvote. Yes, I rather see an end to humankind because that ends suffering. Less suffering in a uni…

Women are biologically determined to have children with a man that can provide security and resources. It’s natural drive and need on the same level as breathing, eating, drinking. Men are biologically driven to have many children, from many different women, as their circumstances and resource ps allow. This is the human condition and anyone born alive accepted the EULA agreement, by being born alive.

Do you deny the existence of men and women who choose not to have children?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#120
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you've got the details right, but it is definitely true that if you are taking part in any elite competition, you are probably going to be competing against people who are working very hard. I don't think that this is specific to male cofounders. Even in the counterfactual world where all founders are women, some will work harder than others, and if there is a perception that the harder workers are mo…

> specific to male cofounders I guess what I was trying to say is, male founders have a few biological choices that female founders don't, and I'm suggesting that it should be considered unethical to set industry work-hour standards to a level that only males can achieve because males are able to de-prioritize biology. An article about one of the most widely acclaimed male founders today: "As an Apple employee in the…

What aspects of male biology are they de-prioritizing? The need to participate in child-rearing?
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