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The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

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Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#111

Post by tmarice »

dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

> Longform reading is magic because it's rarer than ever - it's an art now, according to people like this author.

Adler wrote "How to Read a Book" (which this article is about) originally in 1940, I wouldn't call that "now". HTRAB is a bit dry and over-analytical, but it's definitely practical. It enumerates all questions that you should ask yourself while reading analytically, and while this may sound like an overkill, unless you're paying attention, you'll likely skip some of the steps. I read many great books only to find that they completely evaporated from my head in a week or two. Isn't it a waste of time to spend months reading Brothers Karamazov, and not be changed by that experience? Reading for entertainment and information already is easy as breathing for most people, but for reading for understanding to be as easy as breathing, you need to deliberately practice it.

While Adler's advice is valid, it lacks another important component, and that's discussion. A good book club (reading the great books, not whatever's on top of the NYT bestseller list) will change the entire experience and increase knowledge retention.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#112

Post by brokencode »

Am I the only one who thinks most novels are 90% fluff? Like, they can certainly be entertaining, but the idea of the author making an argument that you need to decode and become enlightened by sits with me the wrong way. Why not just come out and say your points in a condensed form without the story around it?

Does it improve learning to have to decode information from a novel? Does it stick with you better, or make a more relatable case?

The same is true for most non fiction books. Endless stories and examples for something you could have said in 10 pages.

This is why I prefer articles, blog posts, etc. I want to learn, but don’t want to spend hours reading fluff. I enjoy TV shows for entertainment, and don’t feel the need to decode them, because I don’t believe there would be anything in there that isn’t the 50th variation of something I’ve heard before.

Am I missing out on incredible revelations? Upon reading a great book, I’ve never felt enlightened, even when prodded to analyze it in school. Maybe I haven’t tried hard enough, or maybe the point is lost on me, but it just doesn’t seem as worthwhile as so many people claim.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#113

Post by ceilingcorner »

dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

Reading is not a hobby. It is the foundation of civilization as we know it. The issue is with the dearth of actual quality reading that goes on today, when everyone congratulates themselves for reading Harry Potter.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#114

Post by ceilingcorner »

brokencode wrote: post #112

Am I the only one who thinks most novels are 90% fluff? Like, they can certainly be entertaining, but the idea of the author making an argument that you need to decode and become enlightened by sits with me the wrong way. Why not just come out and say your points in a condensed form without the story around it? Does it improve learning to have to decode information from a novel? Does it stick with you better, or make…

If you are reading literature, real literature, purely for information, I'm afraid you've lost the plot somewhere.

As with everything worthwhile in life, good literature is work. Don't expect to pick up a classic novel and understand it immediately.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#116

Post by gshubert17 »

brokencode wrote: post #112

Am I the only one who thinks most novels are 90% fluff? Like, they can certainly be entertaining, but the idea of the author making an argument that you need to decode and become enlightened by sits with me the wrong way. Why not just come out and say your points in a condensed form without the story around it? Does it improve learning to have to decode information from a novel? Does it stick with you better, or make…

Sometimes the experiences in a novel are more memorable than the arguments. Or the combination of characters, experiences, and information is more effective at conveying what the author wants.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#117

Post by hsitz »

Balgair wrote: post #75
dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

One thing about reading is the ROI aspect. Internet comments take ~5 minutes to write, 30s to read (6x ROI). Blog posts are ~4 hours to write, 10m to read (24x). Magazine articles are ~3 months to write, 30m to read (960x). Books are ~5 years to write, 8h to read (1300x). Obviously, books are one of the best reading ROIs. Now, of course, you've got to balance the book quality, your interests, the thesis, the author's…

Besides the idea that finance (i.e., ROI) is relevant at all to the decision to read a book, this doesn't even work as an ROI analogy. You're comparing the investment by one person (the person who writes the work) with the "return" that someone else gets (the person who reads it, though calling the fact that they can read it in less time than it took to someone to write it is hardly a "return").

All this has nothing to do ROI, which measures the return that a single entity gets from an investment they make. If you want to make the ROI analogy work (which I don't think you should) one way to do it would perhaps be to compare the time invested with the amount of people the writer reaches. In that case the "ROI" of any method of writing could be super low (if nobody reads it) or super high (if everyone reads it).

Another way to look at it would be that the time to read something you cite is actually the amount of "investment" by a reader. In that case I expect that many readers experience zero return (or even negative return) on their investment of 30s to read an internet post, while they may experience incalculable, life-changing return from 8 hours spent reading a book. Or, probably less often, vice versa.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#118

Post by jogjayr »

dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

> It's almost like reading has been elevated to a kind of rare alchemy, whereby you can unlock secret cheat codes to life

I owe my career and livelihood to my ability to study, learn and retain information, and manipulate words and abstract symbols. In other words, to reading. Reading well, and quickly, is a magic superpower with practical benefits.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#119

Post by waxpoeticwhy35 »

leesalminen wrote: post #9
cinntaile wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument to dismiss this blogpost is guilt by association, am I understanding you correctly?

Yes, this is the current flavor of the month to show off one’s level of internet outrage. See: Scott Alexander / Astral Codex Ten. It’s funny, I’d never heard of Scott before the HN outrage. I’m now a paying subscriber and have been enjoying his writing.

Scott Alexander was recently exposed as horrifyingly racist and naive among other things. Just FYI.

https://twitter.com/ArsonAtDennys/status/1362153191102677001

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#120

Post by waxpoeticwhy35 »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #104
leesalminen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is the current flavor of the month to show off one’s level of internet outrage. See: Scott Alexander / Astral Codex Ten. It’s funny, I’d never heard of Scott before the HN outrage. I’m now a paying subscriber and have been enjoying his writing.

I've also enjoyed his writing but I can most certainly see his biases. He has a peculiar way of thoroughly researching some assumptions but then apparently having a complete blindspot to others, which is only made more apparently by how critically thinking all his posts are. I guess that's most people, though, they just rarely do so with the precision and eloquence of scott.

Have you seen this?

https://twitter.com/ArsonAtDennys/status/1362153191102677001

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