How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#111

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #63

throwawayboise wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to get emotional like this about programming, both the awe and the contempt depending on circumstances. Now, after 30 years, it's just work. I don't really feel anything about it. And that's kind of the way everything is. Nothing is new or exciting. I wake up, work, do household stuff, eat, go to bed. That's life. Not interesting, not depressing, just neutral.

>Not interesting, not depressing, just neutral. The absence of feelings sounds exactly like depression.

But it doesn't seem that way. I'm not unhappy, or suicidal, or gloomy about the future. I just don't find that anything really feels "new" and therefore nothing really seems exciting. It's like if I got that cliche question "what are you passionate about" in an interview, my answer would be "nothing."

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#112

Post by philosopher1234 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #92

infogulch wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can guarantee you that 5 other teams rely on that specific behavior and don't have the will/independence ("budget") to implement that change if the api was fixed. Not only that, but if they did make that change, their manager would instantly have a handful of directors down their throat demanding an explanation why they just added work to their teams that are busy with Feature Work (TM).

don't have the will/independence ("budget") to implement that change So, dicks and idiot middle managers. I think you made his point.

No. This is such a small issue who honestly cares if it gets fixed? I guarantee you this is not the most important thing anyone involved could be working on. Too many perfectionists on this website.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#113

Post by paganel » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

I used to be romantic about code, even more than that, and then I saw how the code other programmers like me wrote was used for all the wrong reasons and suddenly there was no ounce of romanticism left in the very idea of coding.

There could be some chance of regaining the lost romanticism if we'd throw "collaborative" concoctions like GitHub out of the window, if we'd get rid of the very idea of working for any FAANG-like company ever again (and to hell with those hellish interviews associated with them, too, nobody interviewed Shelley or Goethe before they sat down to write their romantic stuff) and to top it all it would be best if from now on we'd only write code for our own pleasure, maybe add a very short selection of friends, too, no more "software is eating the world" and all that materialistic and definitely non-romantic nonsense.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#114

Post by abarrak » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

A friend of mine asked me: "why are taking it seriously and love to code? I do it just as routine job". Then, he didn't complete his career as programmer and switched to be business analyst.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#115

Post by LordHumungous » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

rufus_foreman wrote: post #4

"After a while, more and more, you’ll find yourself in moments of awe, stunned by the size and fragility of it all; the mountains of work and talent and creativity and foresight and intelligence and luck that went into it. And you’ll reach for the word “magic” because you won’t know how else to describe it and then you lean back and smile, wondering how someone could not." I guess I wish I felt like that about progra…

So all the difficulties in engineering are due to "dicks" and "idiots", unlike like the author who is presumably the only clever person in the entire industry. Here is an example of one thing I actually don't like about this profession: too many emotionally stunted egomaniacs.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#116

Post by leetrout » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

ljm wrote: post #60

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The longer I am in this profession (and it's been over 20 years) the less I see my peers as "dicks and idiots" but more as victims of the same broken game. I work with very smart people, to be honest. It's the technology and the employers and the culture of development that's the problem. Retiring sounds good right about now.

Peopleware, Mythical Man Month, Five Dysfunctions of a Team, and similar classic texts were all written decades ago. It's been over forty years and many organisations haven't learned a damn thing from it. I don't blame developers for it, there are no dicks and idiots involved here. Read one of those books now and it will still feel like an epiphany.

You are very correct.

I think they all have weak spots but any one of those will indeed illuminate one on how broken pretty much every place is. I’d like to try working at bridgewater where there are less games played.

One thing I’ve noticed is pretty much nowhere wants to acknowledge and act on employees emotions (for better or worse).

I love this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16603929

And this article is pretty good:

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/5289.html

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#117

Post by blackrock » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

Grimm1 wrote: post #90

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The job situation for good developers has never been better. We can make salaries that would have seemed unthinkable two decades ago while working from home and doing something we enjoy.

That's true but that is to offset the really negative aspects. How many places never let dev's actually design systems that stand up to scrutiny because the execs don't care if BS is pumped out because as long as the business floats then it doesn't matter. Then the code base becomes a mass of spaghetti that at this point the revolving door of devs have to both figure out and keep alive in ever increasingly stressful…

How old are you now? Or what age group are you in now?

It seems like businesses want the expertise of a 20+ veteran, but want to hire 18 year olds, so they can pay them less, and dangle silly trinkets like free cafeteria food in front of them.

Oh and, why is it taking so long to work on it?

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#118

Post by notriddle » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

Grimm1 wrote: post #90

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The job situation for good developers has never been better. We can make salaries that would have seemed unthinkable two decades ago while working from home and doing something we enjoy.

That's true but that is to offset the really negative aspects. How many places never let dev's actually design systems that stand up to scrutiny because the execs don't care if BS is pumped out because as long as the business floats then it doesn't matter. Then the code base becomes a mass of spaghetti that at this point the revolving door of devs have to both figure out and keep alive in ever increasingly stressful…

The other problem is that there's factors in a company other than, strictly, its engineering culture. I could get a good job, in a good engineering culture, working in adtech, but as long as I have a choice I'd rather not.

The place I work instead can charitably be described as "a victim of regulatory capture," but at least I'm working in a business that I believe has a legitimate reason to exist.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#119

Post by beaconstudios » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #111

carlmr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not interesting, not depressing, just neutral. The absence of feelings sounds exactly like depression.

But it doesn't seem that way. I'm not unhappy, or suicidal, or gloomy about the future. I just don't find that anything really feels "new" and therefore nothing really seems exciting. It's like if I got that cliche question "what are you passionate about" in an interview, my answer would be "nothing."

I think it's fair to not be passionate about programming. As long as you have some sort of creative/passion outlet.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#120

Post by carlmr » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #111

carlmr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not interesting, not depressing, just neutral. The absence of feelings sounds exactly like depression.

But it doesn't seem that way. I'm not unhappy, or suicidal, or gloomy about the future. I just don't find that anything really feels "new" and therefore nothing really seems exciting. It's like if I got that cliche question "what are you passionate about" in an interview, my answer would be "nothing."

Don't you have the feeling you want something exciting?