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Short fat engineers are undervalued

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Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#111
post #57

Do "height on demand". Constant abstract and compress the knowledge so you can ramp up in any area as needed. Really, this is why programming languages are my "home base" of expertise. It's the study of formal ideas and their communication.

This is also the strategy I tend to take. Strong, broad fundamentals so I can quickly pick up specifics on the job.

This still restricts you from getting many of the jobs that require narrow specialization. Specializing on the fly only works to a certain extent and only if you get the opportunity to do so in the first place.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#112
Why would a generalist be wiser than somebody who is able to go into depth and understand the ugly details of a project? That is what the T-shaped thinking is about.

Elon Musk is a great example who is able to answer deep technical questions on many subjects, and I think he needs people who understand their own project deeply, not ,,short fat'' engineers.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#113

Think of an engineering team like a DnD group. You need a tank (wide), DPS (narrow), buff / debuff (QA), wizard (designer), and more. Going all wide or all narrow is a recipe for a team wipe.

Unless, to expand the metaphor to MMORPGs, you’re trying to solo (read: ramen startup) non-current content (read: disrupt an industry that has lagged in technical innovation, meaning you don’t need deep technical innovations but you do need broad agility).

The “short fat engineer” is the early-career nothing-to-lose startup founder, and that’s a vital role that is arguably correctly valued by our industry in recent decades.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too have a broken comb profile. Every now an then I get to have some fun and add or extend a few teeth. But for the most part the skills let me work through most tangles pretty well.

Its interesting that a history of doing hard things is less important than it once was at interview time. You still have to prove that you can do hard things.

I feel like 20 min coding exercises of today are nearly completely inadequate tools for proving if a candidate can do hard things.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#115

my theory: depth == salary, width == mobility. depth is risky - when time is right, you make a ton of money; opposite also true. width is a hedge - you don't get paid as much, but you can land a job quickly, because you can plug into any team

> width is hedge - you don't get paid as much, but you can land a job quickly, because you can plug into any team

I generally like your model, but mobility is upstream of salary too. If you're very intentional about your career, mobility is the ace up your sleeve, letting you slot into the places you need to to maximize your current and future salary.

I've always been a pretty width-first engineer; it just fits my personality. But time and again, I've been able to open doors for myself because my established excellence in one area provided an "insurance policy" for teams to take a chance on me working in another (in-demand, specialized) area. After the first iteration or two, it's been a virtuous cycle, where I make lots of money with my established skill in the currently-hot thing and trade off a small portion of that to grow the skill in the next-to-be-hot thing.

Though perhaps this doesn't generalize well. I've been studying/working in AI for well over a decade and it's been a remarkable boom for my chosen field. Perhaps during the next AI winter, I'll have to face the depth/width trade-off a little more directly. But even in that case, it seems like width maximizes my expected salary.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#116
post #3

The article itself isn't about this but one could theorize that the headline taken literally is also likely true.

Here’s a hot take on that front: “ The well-known association between height and earnings is often thought to reflect factors such as self esteem, social dominance, and discrimination. We offer a simpler explanation: height is positively associated with cognitive ability, which is rewarded in the labor market.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709415/

That's almost certainly at least part of the explanation, if for no other reason than that height and cognitive development are both adversely impacted by some of the same environmental conditions from conception through childhood.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's definitely true that attractiveness indicators correlate with characteristics like intelligence. If you think about it, this shouldn't actually be that surprising; it would be silly if the factors that went into sexual selection had no correlation with survival-boosting traits.

Hm, perhaps I'm reasoning about this correctly, but wouldn't you think the opposite? Being attractive provides evolutionary slack that requires less optimization on other characteristics (like intelligence), and vice versa.

Being judged attractive is a cultural thing that varies with time and place.

Being judged intelligent is also a cultural thing that varies with time and place.

Unless your culture is static for 20+ generations, don't expect much influence of it on evolution.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#118
post #65

How about "tall and fat" (square)? I'd consider myself fairly expert in C and C++, SQL, Windows programming, UNIX/Linux in general, Delphi and a few other technologies, in that quite a few people have paid me for writing important applications using them, teaching them and writing about them.

It seems pretty clear that the model is relative to "total surface area". What you call a "tall and fat" square may be "short and skinny" relative to someone else's bar, but now we're just talking about total level of skill, which isn't really relevant.

Re: Short fat engineers are undervalued

#119
I think there's some dynamics at play here that obscure the situation.

First of all, there's a tendency for depth engineers to be more visible. But this is extreme; there's a handful of top names in StackOverflow for a tag like csharp or django, but that doesn't mean number 1000 in a given tag is an amateur at it, he's likely pretty good. Similarly, not everyone writes respected blogs, but the people who do tend to be ones who spent a heck of a lot of time in one niche. That doesn't mean you need a known blogger for your project.

Second, there's a tendency for hiring firms to want a dev fully trained in some vertical. This may sound sensible but often isn't. If you have some person who did a lot of work in RoR, but you have a Py/Django project, couldn't you expect him to get up to speed reasonably quickly? I think in a lot of cases, yes. Whether you'll be allowed to take that risk depends on the situation, and often you won't be. This works the other way too: a lot of devs will decide not to bother applying.

Third, diminishing returns. Like a lot of knowledge stuff, there's a sort of pareto principle here. You can learn most of anything in way under half the time to learn the whole thing, if that's even possible. If your project is not super specialized in one vertical, but still requires a lot of verticals, you benefit from having a guy who knows a lot about a lot of stuff.

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