Want to see a great example of a Linux distro that doesn't use X and is quite popular? Android.
Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
111–120 of 419 posts
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#112This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…
Did you manage to get screensharing working with Slack on Wayland? Did you manage to setup more than 1 monitor to run on various (an sometimes very different) dpi settings?
You could try it in chrome which has wayland support. Wayland support was added to chrome and electron recently but it looks like most electron apps are on old versions.
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#113This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…
> Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. okay, but what if I don't like gnome ? e.g. I had to record a screencap of a bug of a software (that, uh, occurs only under wayland) so I went under weston and, well apparently there is also a screen capture tool but it is incompatible. On X11 I use simplescreenrecorder no matter the desktop (I mostly use i3wm or KDE Plasma depending on the circumstances). Also…
There's also screen recorders for sway (which I guess you'd be using if you're currently an i3 user).
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#114This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…
Not to mention that mixed DPI screens work! I'm using Ubuntu 20.04 on an XPS13 and can finally have different scaling factors between the internal HiDPI screen and external normal DPI screen without awful issues.
Yeah. Using a laptop with a monitor on X11 was a pain -- one of the two would always be off.
I _am_ disappointed in that fractional scaling is not first-class :(
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#115> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…
As a complete outsider - ok, I'm a developer, but I haven't had the pleasure (?) of writing something that interfaces directly with Xorg yet - I have been reading for years about Wayland being the way forward and how Xorg is dragged down by a long history of dubious design decisions and features nobody needs anymore, and I was secretly wondering: if this is really the future of desktop Linux, why doesn't it gain more…
How does the OS move forward then? When is it appropriate to say "this is so badly outdated that we need to throw it away and move to something new"?
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Holy sh... I've been battling this for YEARS now on X11. I'll try Wayland and see if it's better
If that doesn't why not get all high dpi hardware
Sometimes you plug into monitors that you don't own.
Some monitors also have unusual dpi where they are HiPDI but don't suit 2x UI scaling. A very popular LG USB-C 4K monitor is in that camp.
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#117My biggest issue with Wayland is how it makes window managers a thing of the past. i3, xmonad, elightenment, ctwm, WindowMaker and dozens of others appeared only because X made it easy. Wayland makes developing window managers difficult again.
Sway exists (an almost identical i3 clone) and wlroots makes it easy for anyone to make a WM
Having a singular library is more limiting than X even for a developer of a wm and much more so to user who can no longer merely assemble an environment by setting a list of components to be started by a script.
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The author obviously hasn’t tried plugging a high dpi monitor in to a laptop if they don’t understand what’s wrong with X This is the only actual, honest, problem that I've ever seen about X. Still, it does not seem a really fundamental problem, it must surely be solvable from within X? Do we really need a full-rewrite of X, unstable, with new bugs and less functionalities? (many of us don't use "desktop" applicati…
The problem has been crippling the Linux desktop for many years now and it still remains unsolved in X which must indicate that either it is not realistically possible or it is so much work that no one is willing to do it and likely never will. The transition to Wayland is largely finished now. Electron added support last year and eventually the last of the electron apps will update and everything will be done other…
Wayland has existed since more than 10 years and it has still not been able to release a usable system. I'm not willing to lose things that I use everyday just because some idiots want to move their windows between screens and see that they don't change their apparent size. Seriously, this is not a crippling problem. You can easily change the size of one program once it is on the desired screen. What kind of savage keeps moving their windows through different screens?
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#119> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…
> [...] reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc Reducing technical debt by rewriting everything from scratch (almost?) never works. It's the baby and the bathwater. It's the sort of thing that seems attractive to junior developers, but more seasoned folks know that the legacy system contains years of embedded knowledge and workarounds for "real world" issues. The new, conceptually beautiful system…
> It's the sort of thing that seems attractive to junior developers
You make it sound like Wayland has been pushed by some script kiddies, when in fact the lead developers on Wayland are the actual Xorg maintainers.
To me, the migration from X11 to Wayland looks similar to the switch from DOS-based Windows to Windows NT. At the time, lots of programs were broken by the move because they assumed you could meddle in other application's internal memory. But breaking those applications was not malicious intent on the side of the Windows devs. It was a legimitate move towards a more sustainable architecture. I'm not intimately familiar with X11 internals, but my read of the situation is that X11 just exposes too many internals in its interfaces, and therefore it becomes increasingly impossible to adapt it to contemporary needs (in this case, application sandboxing).
Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Perhaps we did need a new display server, perhaps Wayland is conceptually better than Xorg, but it'll be many years before it reaches feature parity, if it ever does. I haven't followed the development at all but, Xorg is 16 years old and Wayland is 12. It seems counterintuitive that feature parity could not be attained in this time unless it's for philosophical reasons. Edit: Thanks for pointing out that Xorg is a…
> Xorg is 16 years old Xorg is a fork of Xfree86 which started in 1991 but feature parity minus the cruft has been reached years ago. Some people disagree about what is cruft however. For example, I view 90% of the list in the posted articles to be minor softwares relying on undesirable behaviour and unwilling to adapt (the remaining 10% being misrepresentation of actually solved issues listed in bad faith). The orig…
> How can people accept to use a display manager with constant screen tearing is beside me.
I'm not saying this isn't true, but I always find it interesting when I see people complain about screen tearing.
How often does it actually happen to you, and under which circumstances?
Personally I've been using computers since 1995, (Windows and Linux) and I practically never encounter screen tearing. And this is on a wide variety of hardware. Spread evenly over intel, nvidia, and AMD.
The rare times I did encounter it, was only on one PC with an ancient nvidia graphics card (running Arch linux, bspwm). And it would only ever (if even) happen right before a restart after updating the nvidia drivers.