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Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

economist.com

111–120 of 268 posts

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#111
post #47

What's not mentioned in the OP: - INSANE peer pressure. If you're skinny as a twig in the US, you're probably considered normal in Japan. If you're actually an obese person (again, in the US standard), people here wouldn't even look at you straight. This kind of environment put a huge pressure for one to stay in shape. - INSANE obsession for health. I hear that Americans are obsessed with health, but oh boy, have the…

> Maybe this is good for public health overall, but I bet there's a certain mental toll.

I'm trying to weigh this over the model in my country where even in private healthcare the doctors tend to downplay the severity of your ailments.

A friend of mine is currently suffering from multiple afflictions and this is his experience.

I've only ever got roped into unnecessary treatments (only affecting aesthetics really), so it was a surprise for me that even those who have all the incentive to look closely at your problems tend to leave it unless it something that can be done quickly.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#112
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The single biggest difference between Japanese and American diet is the amount of food What about sugar? There's a big difference there, too. Americans put sugar in everything, even things you'd think wouldn't need it, like salad dressing and pizza dough. Sugar (sucrose) is made up of glucose & fructose, and I don't think fructose is healthy for us. And its metabolic pathway makes us fat [0] via _de novo lipogenesi…

The Japanese like to put sugar in a lot of dishes, too, whether inari, omelettes, sushi rice, sauces, etc.

I think the difference is the amount though - the cheesecake I had at the Cheesecake Factory after getting used to Japanese cheesecakes was shockingly sweet.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#113
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese like to put sugar in a lot of dishes, too, whether inari, omelettes, sushi rice, sauces, etc.

I think the difference is the amount though - the cheesecake I had at the Cheesecake Factory after getting used to Japanese cheesecakes was shockingly sweet.

True, American sugar levels are insane. Coming from a European perspective, japanese food is very sweet though.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#114
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an alternative to the Economist? I can't find a better publication short of an academic journal or literature. Someone recommended Foreign Affairs but I've yet to buy one.

I tried searching for one a few months ago when my Economist subscription was expiring. Unfortunately, not even a single one comes close. The Atlantic is often advertised as the other high-quality publication. The target audience, however, is overwhelmingly the US. Economist makes me feel like other countries exist, and there is enough going on outside the US. On the ideological front, I fell into this trap of findin…

I've personally found the Atlantic to be essentially a pseudointellectual Buzzfeed. Same clickbaity titles and bullshit, just with a high-brow spin.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people here wouldn't even look at you straight Quite the opposite! Random strangers will stare, and friends and colleagues will make blunt comments in a way that would send them straight to HR in the US: you'll be told to your face you're fat, asked how much you weigh, get poked in the belly, asked if you've tried sumo wrestling, etc. A random デブちゃん's experience: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/fat-in-japan/

I’ve had those experiences in China, my friends would often comment on my weight. They never meant it in a offensive way, but it’s still hurtful.

Empathy isn't a cultural thing, it's a human thing.

If people are doing things that are hurtful and they don't care to notice, they aren't your friends, they're just people you know.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#116
post #14

I would sincerely like to get a breakdown of all the factors that contribute to the Japanese living to such an old age, rather than the usual "this one weird trick" bullshit that Economist and others try to swindle on the Western readership. It's quite frankly annoying, although I've lost the last ounce of respect I've had for the Economist years ago so I'm the idiot for expecting them to be any better. I've gone thr…

> Why is it so bloody hard

It takes 100 years to get one data-point. For us to track a person's habit throughout their life that eventually ends up living to 100 years is not an easy or quick task.

And even if you had the best tracking in place, isolating cause and effect given how so many variables are involved is no easy task either.

So instead we have to rely on small experiments, low sample size studies, and studies where variables are hard to isolate.

But there's a lot that's known that's pretty clear, exercice is good, cardio or strength or flexibility, they all seem good. We don't know how much of it is needed, but more doesn't seem to hurt.

Having lower body fat, eating at a slight deficit, that's pretty clear as well.

Cutting out bad nutrients, chemicals, processed foods, etc. That's not totally proven, but at least it helps with weight control, and it definitely doesn't seem to be beneficial, so at best it's neutral at worst harmful.

Pollution of all kinds has negative effects. That's pretty well established. Nothing much you can do about it since about everywhere and everything is polluted it seems nowadays.

Having low stress and good nights of sleep, that seems pretty well established as well.

Genetics, ya genetics for sure. But can't do anything about it so no reason to worry about it.

Now eating good foods also help. There's ton of micro-nutrients with small studies that show benefits. So just make sure you eat plenty of all kind of good micro-nutrients. You'll get the most out of vegetables, legumes, fruits, herbs, seeds, nuts, and all that. Fatty fish are good, and other fish and seafood have some good micro-nutrients as well. Except the larger the fish, the more pollutant it contains, so don't exaggerate either on fish.

Meats are uncertain. At least keep them on the lower side, especially red meat since there might be links with some form of cancers. That said, if you do eat meat, make sure it's grass fed and all, cause meet from grass fed animals have way more good micro-nutrients in them.

Also seems you want to keep your brain active as well, continue to learn new things, helps prevent dementia and other brain degenerative issues.

Apparently good company, having people to laugh and socialize with is good as well, but unsure how much, again it clearly doesn't hurt and might be good.

That's it, but, the sad part of all this, all those things just help a little bit, mostly with quality of life and not that much with longetivity. What has helped the most with longetivity has been modern medicine and surgeries, which is pretty much the single reason why people live longer now then before.

Edit: Oh and it also seems that there are other things that can affect you a lot, like which bacteria and viruses you've been exposed too thorought your life at different stages. Exposure to these can be good or bad depending.

I also forgot good amount of fibers can prevent diverticulitis and other possible digestive issues. Proper levels of vitamins (best if obtained from foods), including D (which is best obtained from the sun). Good hydration (helps some of your organs function). And amortize sugar intake, so you don't spike your blood sugars.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#117
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do all Japanese actually eat that healthy? I can believe it of some of them, but there’s little fruit and many salarymen seem to live on a diet of fried chicken, hard liquor and cigarettes.

>many salarymen seem to live on a diet of fried chicken, hard liquor and cigarettes. That's what surprised me the most visiting Japan. All the skinny people in Japan eating fried chicken, fried mashed potatoes, fried everything. The only thing I could make out for why they were skinny was insane levels of portion control. Since they definitely didn't have time to do sports.

Also a tremendous amount of walking. Japanese urban planning is much more pedestrian friendly than say, almost anywhere in the US.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#118
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, it's called fat-shaming. In Asian countries, you may feel a little bit shamed if you're overweight. You'll even get less food around the table if you're fat. Societal pressures could be both a curse and a blessing.

Fat shaming is brutal in Asian countries. If one is fat, they will be bullied or they will need to be bully. I know a Pakistani American obese woman who went to Pakistan for a wedding. Every kid in the neighborhood was calling "moti" auntie which is equalant of fatty. I work with a lot of Indians and they will randomly point out that you have gained weight.

There’s plenty of motus in PK last I checked so I don’t know where they get off

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#119
Hmm. When I look at the graphs, I see nothing spectacular here, except for one. In all cases, they pretty much mirror every other country, which over time shows gradual declines.

That is, except for Cerebrovascular.

I have to wonder, what of WWII?

1) Almost every single Japanese city of any size was firebombed, and the cities being mostly wooden, most of those cities burned extensively.

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=217 (scroll down a bit for a chart of some of the cities bombed, 50+? More, even?)

In fact, the number of deaths from firebombing dwarfed the two nuclear bombs dropped. Now imagine all of that smoke, burning varnish + paint + wood for days or weeks on end.

You may think that burning wood is not an issue, but people have died from burning pressure treated wood, as an example, due to the chemicals in it. I don't know what sort of treatments 1940s Japan had in its mostly wooden cities of the time, including buildings 100+ years old, but you can be sure they had something. Pressure treating has been around since the early 1800s, but even staining/coating wood with chemicals to kill pests (insects), is almost a certainty.

How does this affect a person's body? There is a lot of talk about diet, and diet is important, but what about creosote, a common preservation agent used on wood at the time? There are all sorts of potential side effects, and as we known from some other conditions, it can take a long time to manifest.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/t/tar+creosote+exposure

Or, perhaps, damage is done... but does not exhibit itself until old age. Meaning, "near the end", the thing which gets you is "what has been most weakened."

2) Of course, there were the bombs. There were birth defects, raised cancer rates, on and on.

3) People with 'bad outcomes' in those graphs peaking up to the 1970s, would have been 20 to 30 years old or so in the 40s.

I guess what I'm saying here is, 20-30 year olds during WWII would show as a peak in graphs during the 70s, potentially.

Why do the graphs start right when those who experienced WWII as adults, would be perhaps dying due to the effects of those conditions?

Ah well. Just thoughts.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#120
post #117
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>many salarymen seem to live on a diet of fried chicken, hard liquor and cigarettes. That's what surprised me the most visiting Japan. All the skinny people in Japan eating fried chicken, fried mashed potatoes, fried everything. The only thing I could make out for why they were skinny was insane levels of portion control. Since they definitely didn't have time to do sports.

Also a tremendous amount of walking. Japanese urban planning is much more pedestrian friendly than say, almost anywhere in the US.

Europe has that, too but we're not that skinny.
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