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Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

ka7oei.blogspot.com

111–120 of 187 posts

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#111
post #68

There's an update at the bottom: - Delmarva Broadband is authorized 14.35-14.99 MHz at 186 kW. Contact is a law office in DC. See https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.htm - … and M-Wave is authorized the 14-14.99 MHz at 16 kW. See https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.htm

Kilowatts? wtf So much for that hobby. Where were those links supposed to go anyhow?

Maybe there's a hobby in receiving their trading data and having software react to it — following milliseconds behind their trade.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#112
post #53
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bandwidth doesn't need to be huge for HFT. If you can send a message saying "there was a big upward movement in the price of instrument X", that's enough to be incredibly valuable if it gets to the other end before anyone else knows about it. There might only be a few dozen instruments you're interested in, and a few events for each one, so being able to send a single byte could be enough. Obviously, more bandwidth i…

Yeah this is just a narrow wormhole ~8ms into the future. You can pack all sorts of state around it via their existing low-latency fiber...probably just need a few bits over RF to do work.

I’m reminded of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines#... where there’s just enough of a channel through the ocean to send a few symbols that mean something prearranged like “make contact ASAP.”

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#113

For HFT purposes, it's hard to hide an intercontinental range HF antenna, particularly a directional one. I know at least 3 locations not far from the illinois CME datacenter, out in some fields, with huge yagi-uda antennas aimed at London and tokyo.

What altitude would you have to be at to have line of site to Tokyo and London from Chicago? They're probably aimed somewhere above and in between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave

Assuming the same tower height at both ends, and ignoring refraction due to the atmosphere, I get that you would need 1500 mile tall towers for Chicago to Tokyo. (I did miles rather than meters because my Google for the distance between them came back in miles and I was too lazy to convert).

For Chicago to London I get 560 mile tall towers.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#114
post #23

Why suspect HFTs over other potential interfering applications? Could be anything, and unless I missed something, TFA doesn't show any evidence that the usage is HFT-motivated

The Chicago mercantile exchange is close to the center of the transmission. There are previous instances of HFT chasing low latency between Chicago and NYC, so it seems plausible this is something similar. It is not proof of course. Plenty of other things could be happening in Chicago.

I wonder if high frequency sports betting is a thing.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#115

Morality and outrage aside, we know where they are, and the format they are using, and they are in a fixed site. The real question is: How can we: 1> receive and regenerate the source bit stream 2> use that to exactly recreate the transmitted signal 3> synchronized with that signal, and 4> then use it to cancel out the interference?

Jamming is illegal.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#116
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're way off the mark with your examples. More appropriate ones would be military weapons, multi-level marketing, payday loan firms with ridiculous interest rates, scummy advertisement firms. You might not remember that in the Middle-Ages a large portion of intellectuals were spending most of their time debating religion such as is God really omnipotent and what a specific verse in Bible meant. Now sure you can arg…

>in the Middle-Ages a large portion of intellectuals were spending most of their time debating religion such as is God really omnipotent and what a specific verse in Bible meant. Right. And through all that thinking about silly stuff, people eventually came to the idea that a LOT of this religion stuff is silly and not worth wasting time on, so smart people could skip worrying about it for the rest of human existence…

Funny that you mention Douglas Adams. I am confident HFTers would be on Ark B.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#117

His leap to a conclusion, "this is HFT in Chicago" seems overly precise. Sure, it is a great hypothesis, but not much supplementary evidence.

The context here is that there are already speculations and some indirect evidence about High-Frequency Traders on the High Frequency band for years (e.g. see [0] from 2018), which made it a naturally candidate. I'm not saying that it's proved, but a candidate worth investigating.

[0] Shortwave Trading | Part I | The West Chicago Tower Mystery

https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/05/07/shortwave-tr...

[1] SHORTWAVE TRADING | PART II | FAQ AND OTHER CHICAGO AREA SITES

https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/06/07/shortwave-tr...

[2] Shortwave Trading | Part III | Fourth Chicago Site, East Coast, Patent, Regulation, and Farmer Kevin Mystery

https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/07/13/shortwave-tr...

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#118
ARRL mentioned this stuff in June 2018, then crickets.

The second link on ka7oei's page, a 2018 discussion among hams, names a few of the perps' ID's. It said 'WJ2XGD' was the only one licensed on 20m.[0] Quote: 'Emission bandwidth shall not extend beyond the bandlimits' = 14-14.99.

They're -not- required to ID themselves [Section 5.115] (an eyebrow-raiser).[1]

[0] https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=204018&x=. [License to M-Wave Networks LLC, Illinois]

[1] https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/ham-radio-mentioned...

This long, archived page about HFT tech briefly considers the HF option considerations (search for 'HAM radio')

[2] [https://web.archive.org/web/20171012010437/https://meanderfu...]

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#119
post #72
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a terribly strong argument. Should we ban making chocolate as well? Sports? Art? After all, these people could surely be creating something more valuable. If you want to make an argument based on opportunity cost, it generally should have specific alternatives and a viable cost metric. Without that, it's not an argument, just an opinion.

You're way off the mark with your examples. More appropriate ones would be military weapons, multi-level marketing, payday loan firms with ridiculous interest rates, scummy advertisement firms. You might not remember that in the Middle-Ages a large portion of intellectuals were spending most of their time debating religion such as is God really omnipotent and what a specific verse in Bible meant. Now sure you can arg…

> You're way off the mark with your examples. More appropriate ones would be military weapons, multi-level marketing, payday loan firms with ridiculous interest rates, scummy advertisement firms.

Agreed. Modern economics encourages waste, such as multi-level marketing, payday loans, advertising, etc.

Hell, I'm sure most people's jobs here, indeed, most jobs would fall under David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs".

> You might not remember that in the Middle-Ages a large portion of intellectuals were spending most of their time debating religion such as is God really omnipotent and what a specific verse in Bible meant. > > Now sure you can argue that they were doing only what the society and themselves considered valuable. But one can only wonder if those smart people had been putting their best effort into other things, say developing agriculture or better industrial processes.

... I cannot agree. A few years ago I picked up Anthony Kenny's "A Brief History of Western Philosophy", and "A New History of Western Philosophy". What these "useless" debates about knowledge got us were considerable changes in morality, metaphysics, and helped us create things that were useful in the long run. Indeed, the only reason formal 'science' is around is because of those changes in thought and reasoning.

Bertrand Russell has another sort of argument in the same direction, that I quite like. You can find it here: https://books.google.no/books?id=CnlbMP_vBmgC&pg=PA16&dq=use...

> I myself did a little day-trading at one period in my life and while I made money, I thought it was the most useless thing I could spend my life in.

Agreed.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#120
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kilowatts? wtf So much for that hobby. Where were those links supposed to go anyhow?

Maybe there's a hobby in receiving their trading data and having software react to it — following milliseconds behind their trade.

They’re already 5 moves ahead by the time it hits market.
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