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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#111

Post by bigiain »

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #98
Barrin92 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal. Open source, non-profit, very good privacy defaults. Telegram seems even worse than whatsapp to be honest because they don't even have encryption on by default.

Telegram always has encryption, just no end-to-end encryption by default. This is a privacy/convenience trade-off. When chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases, you don't really need E2EE that much, and chats without E2EE are synced to all devices in Telegram, including a fully-supported desktop app.

I get this argument, but for me, needing to moderate conversations "chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases," to make sure they don't edge into discussions I'd _really_ rather have E2E encrypted is something I just _know_ will go wrong for some of the participants in chat sooner or later. _That's_ a convenience tradeoff in favour of E2E by default for me. (But yeah, not for most people...)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#113

Post by colordrops »

sagivo wrote: post #71
utf_8x wrote: post #62

Once again - Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p ... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog ... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

How is it compared to telegram?

Telegram has had several security and privacy issues in the past. It also stores your messages unencrypted on their server by default.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#114

Post by frereubu »

Evidlo wrote: post #78
utf_8x wrote: post #62

Once again - Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p ... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog ... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

That's just moving from one silo to another though. Users of centralized services don't have much recourse when the company pulls the rug out from under them.

Can you clarify what you mean by a "silo"? Do you mean once you start using Signal you're stuck in Signal, and you can't export all your messages into another app?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#115

Post by domano »

utf_8x wrote: post #80
sagivo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it compared to telegram?

IMO it works just as well and unlike Telegram it's actually credible... The telegram crypto is an absolute disaster and they have been pretty shady and defensive when asked about it in the past. Not to mention the back-end is closed-source. Also, the desktop clients still don't support encryption, many years after it's been first requested.

Do you have some links regarding their disastrous encryption? The security guys i know speak highly of telegram and AFAIK it has been open sourced recently, but i am open to new information.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#116

Post by afandian »

utf_8x wrote: post #94
afandian wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried to use it it on my android didn't work without google play services. And they really bury the apk download, which means it's useless(or heavily discouraged) for people without a google account. (Edit: this is rather a negative comment but its out of frustration -- I want to use it!)

The APK is really not that hard to find... https://signal.org/android/apk/ That page also states "Advanced users with special needs can download the Signal APK directly. Most users should not do this under normal circumstances." which IMO is a very good point. Downloading random APKs from the internet is rarely a good idea...

Yeah you can search for it but it's not obvious from the site. I just think it's a shame that it's touted as open source but they don't appear to have given much thought to the open source demographic. It's not on f-droid.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#117

Post by mro_name »

blue_box wrote: post #47
DiederikvandenB wrote: post #36

Does this also apply to European customers, given GDPR?

Seems like, no. On their EU Privacy Policy, it says: “Today, Facebook does not use your WhatsApp account information to improve your Facebook product experiences or provide you more relevant Facebook ad experiences on Facebook.“

prbly they're not using it to 'improve', but to e.g. worsen? That statement would be legally true. lol.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#118

Post by stabbles »

nkingsy wrote: post #110
Evidlo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just moving from one silo to another though. Users of centralized services don't have much recourse when the company pulls the rug out from under them.

Isn’t the problem profit motive? Wikipedia is a foundation, so it works the same way it always has. We need this for more basic services like messaging and identity

You can donate to Signal too. What has to happen until people realize they should be willing to pay a little money for a service?

We've actually witnessed that people _are_ willing to pay for streaming services like Spotify and Netflix after a long time of illegal torrents. How can we spread this sentiment towards services like email and chat too?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#119

Post by johnchristopher »

Arainach wrote: post #90
Evidlo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just moving from one silo to another though. Users of centralized services don't have much recourse when the company pulls the rug out from under them.

Users want centralized services. Syncing across devices and shared history are mandatory features, and are basically impossible to do well in distributed models.

I have never lost a matrix message (but I am fed up with e2e warning and new session weird insecure messages) but I have come to the conclusion than Signal isn't reliable since it sometimes lose messages. It's no-no.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#120

Post by KorematsuFred »

nkingsy wrote: post #110
Evidlo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just moving from one silo to another though. Users of centralized services don't have much recourse when the company pulls the rug out from under them.

Isn’t the problem profit motive? Wikipedia is a foundation, so it works the same way it always has. We need this for more basic services like messaging and identity

The motives could be many. While Wikipedia is a so called non-profit foundation it has its one biases and various groups use it to push various agendas including political agendas.
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