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Decoding the Peloton

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Re: Decoding the Peloton

#111

Post by saagarjha »

0x1F8B wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was floored when I realized the Peloton has no games and it's closed to third-party developers. It seems to just have group classes which couldn't be less interesting to me. I don't understand what you thought the product was? It's an exercise bike. You do exercise classes on it. It's not a games machine. What were they thinking? They were thinking it's an exercise bike.

This is a grouchy reply. The OP obviously isn't trying to get Tekken running on a Peloton. You can imagine "games" in this sense being competitions played out via the bike, so time trials, race tournaments, etc. Compete with your friends (or others) to get through a race comparable to Tour de France stages -- something like that. Aside from survival, there is no greater motivator for pushing oneself physically than c…

Someone should do Doom, though.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#112

Post by cerebellum42 »

breakfastduck wrote: post #16
cerebellum42 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the prices are crazy. Quick comparison: Peloton bike EUR 2145 + EUR 39/month - gets you courses and indoor riding or: Canyon Endurace AL Disc 6.0 as an example of a very solid entry level road bike - EUR 1299 Kickr Core direct drive turbo trainer (good turbo trainer, there are cheaper ones if you go without direct drive) - EUR 799 Combined EUR 2098 + EUR 15/month for a Zwift membership or something comparable…

1299 is not an entry level price for a bike, goodness me. Unbelievable that the peloton costs that much, what benefits do they actually offer over any alternative?

Kinda depends on the perspective - if you want to take up road riding as exercise somewhat seriously, it's the price point where the component quality levels off.

Above that price point, component quality goes up in terms of performance, weight, etc, below that price point it requires compromise you notice even when just riding for exercise (lower durability, bad shifts, sluggish ride feel and so on).

In the world of road bikes, I'd propose roughly these categories:

100-400: bad cheapo bikes. Will ride, but no fun and will break and give you headaches soon.

700-1000: Decent bikes, but you have to make some compromises. Fun can be had, will not randomly break because of bad quality components.

1000-1400: Good stuff, not extravagant. Won't have to compromise on much, you can be satisfied with this forever unless you want to be competitive, and even then it'll do fine.

1500-2500: "Premium", lighter weight, carbon stuff, really nice.

2500-4000: Same, but you can have cool carbon aero frames and stuff and lighter components.

5000+: Pro bike worthy.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#113

Post by ubermonkey »

rconti wrote: post #97
eigthbits wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a road cyclist as well, used Zwift + Wahoo trainer for a few years. My wife really wanted a Peloton so we got one. I've ended up selling my Wahoo and do power zone training on the Peloton. The pedal stroke is smoother, far less vibration and noise. I don't have to worry about keeping sweat off a bike or having a bike on/off the trainer. It's so easy and convenient to get a 45 or 60 minute session in that my FTP i…

There is a ton of crossover. Unsurprisingly, I see quite a few serious Peloton riders who "graduate" to direct-drive trainers and zwift or whatever, but I see just as many who try it and come back, or who migrate from that world TO the peloton. In particular, I hear a lot of complaints about Zwift getting really boring. I'm not a gamer, but as a Peloton rider, I find the gamification aspect kind of appealing. I like…

Zwift is pretty boring, unless you're racing, but it's at least SOMETHING.

I find that I'm mostly using it to drive the trainer, since I mostly watch a movie or something on the second tablet.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#114

Post by ubermonkey »

_ihaque wrote: post #69
matsemann wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Peloton have ERG modus? Not only don't I have to mess with gearing/resistance as software can adjust my trainer, but my trainer will also make me keep my power target regardless of cadence. If I spin faster, it will make the resistance lighter such that my wattage stays the same.

(Author here) There's no built-in mode for constant power. (Nor could there be, on the original Bike that I have, as the resistance control is manual.) The new one might have it. At a hardware level I'm not sure how well it would work. Out of the box, the tablet only queries the bike for cadence/power/resistance every 100ms, one query at a time in round robin, so your power reading is only coming every 300ms. However…

"Erg mode" is pretty core to expectations for smart trainers now. It can also lead to a sort of "workout failure death spiral" -- you start to fail at your interval, and your pedal stroke slows down, so the resistance increases to meet your power target, and you slow down some more...

This can end up chasing you up the cassette if you don't get back on top of it, or you don't adjust the workout bias (ie, reduce the overall power targets to something you can hit).

but you really want this, at least for structured training. It may NOT be important if your goal is "spin at home."

(Someone downtopic seems to think drawing a distinction between "people who mostly ride outside fast in pacelines" and "people who mostly just like spin classes" is somehow snobbery, but I don't see it that way at all.)

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#115

Post by fuzzylightbulb »

ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

Something that you might want to check out is this kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shiftsmarttrainer/shift...

Its a device that you set on the Peloton that does the automatic resistance changes to match the hills in Zwift by using a motor to turn the big red knob. Basically it converts your Peloton into a smart trainer that you can use with Zwift without having to mod your Peloton at all.

Note: I am not affiliated with the project but I have backed it.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#116

Post by ubermonkey »

rconti wrote: post #96
ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

I do a lot of power training on the Peloton (had it for 4 years now, been doing power training for.. 2.5?) I agree that "serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market", and it comes across in literally every piece of snobbery about how a spin bike can't simulate real road feel and you'll never get your proper position and couldn't possibly train the same muscles and so on. I just smile and nod. The bike worl…

>it comes across in literally every piece of snobbery about how a spin bike can't simulate real road feel and you'll never get your proper position and couldn't possibly train the same muscles and so on. I just smile and nod. The bike world is full of snobbery.

None of that is actually WRONG, though. A spin bike is its own thing, with its own set of desired features and aesthetics and behaviors. It's not snobbery to say it's different from training done with cycling trainers and "real" bikes.

Your final paragraph is kind of odd, since the questions you asked were already answered. Power interval training for competitive cyclists involves longish (45-120 minute) workouts with many intervals set at different percentages of your functional threshold power.

Manually adjusting for each one is a tremendous pain in the ass. For example, on my workout last night, I would've had to manually adjust it 16 times in 55 minutes.

Smart trainers have more or less taken over for serious riders precisely because they remove this problem.

If this isn't a problem for YOU because you prefer the way spin-type workouts go, that's awesome for you, but it really just points out that serious outdoor riders are mostly looking for a different experience than Peloton sells. Again: not snobbery. Just an acknowledgment that spin outdoor cycling.

Re: Decoding the Peloton

#117

Post by dodo6502 »

eigthbits wrote: post #88
ubermonkey wrote: post #54

I'm a pretty serious road cyclist, so I get LOTS of questions about training, and about Peloton in particular, which is weird because serious outdoor riders are not really Peloton's market AT ALL. It's always been for spin people, and spin classes are their own thing entirely. Certainly SOME of my riding pals do spin during the week, but most of them are doing structured workouts using TrainerRoad or TrainingPeaks or…

I'm a road cyclist as well, used Zwift + Wahoo trainer for a few years. My wife really wanted a Peloton so we got one. I've ended up selling my Wahoo and do power zone training on the Peloton. The pedal stroke is smoother, far less vibration and noise. I don't have to worry about keeping sweat off a bike or having a bike on/off the trainer. It's so easy and convenient to get a 45 or 60 minute session in that my FTP i…

I find that the watts are not the same on the Peloton vs Kickr. Watts seem to read lower on the Peloton. What is your take?
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